Killa_Hertz
1224 posts
Apr 29, 2016
6:55 PM
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Ok so .. i just got my first chromatic. It was playing fine when i first got it (yesterday) I played it for hours last night and a bit today. All of a sudden the 1 draw windsaver starts making noise. Its really annoying.
Obviously it's something i must have done wrong.
So how do you prevent this from happening?
I mean i know they will go eventually, but 1 day is a lil soon i would guess ... 8^/
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Crawforde
105 posts
Apr 29, 2016
7:11 PM
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A warm chromatic is a happy chromatic.
Warm it up before you play and that decreases condensation and valve sticking.
Also if you got that old Hohner you were talking about it may have some old valves.
I recently replaced some valves with the single layer valves that Danny G sells. I think Wally makes them.
They are easy to put on and trim because you can see through them.
No sticking even without warming up.
Only one layer so no worries about the layers sticking together.
Nice and quiet.
I'm sold on these things.
Seydel valves are nice too, but these things are great.
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Killa_Hertz
1228 posts
Apr 30, 2016
4:53 AM
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So just to be clear .. warm it up like before blowing into it or by playing it softly first.
I know on cold days i put my diatonics up to the heater in the car to warm them up.
Im pretty certain they are new valves. I had another used chromatic and that thing had some crazy valves. Althought these may not be the best. But they are all laying flat and look in good shape like they are supposed to.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll have to order a set of good valves when more of these start acting up.
Hopefully with proper care i can keep these going for a bit. They seem to be single layer also, but white. The other chromatic i had had those multi layer jobs.
Oh well. Looks like i better get used to the valve situation.
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Crawforde
107 posts
Apr 30, 2016
5:48 AM
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Warm it up dry before you blow into it and that reduces most problems.
Put it on the heater vent for a bit, or in your pocket or under shirt, or down your pants....
You don't want to cook it, just warm it up enough so that your warm breath goes through without condensing on the valves.
Careful. These things are a bit complicated with the slide and valves and all, but they are way too much fun.
Another bonus is the low octave seems to be much less irritating to spouses.
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mlefree
659 posts
May 01, 2016
3:58 AM
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Robert Bonfiglio keeps his backup CBHs on a heating pad like you put on sore muscles during practice sessions and performances.
A drugstore heating pad is inexpensive and handy for a harmonica player to have around. I keep my reed plates sandwiched in one whilst tuning them.
Set it on "low."
Michelle
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SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.
Last Edited by mlefree on May 01, 2016 3:58 AM
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Killa_Hertz
1239 posts
May 01, 2016
6:40 AM
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Wow. Michelle that's a fantastic idea. Especially for tuning.
Thanks Crawforde. Yes i do this with my diatonics, just because it makes them play better faster. The 64 might be a lil harder to roll up in the bottom of your shirt and tuck under you belt, but ill figure something out. 8^)
The car heater works pretty good. I guess Ill just have to be careful not to let it blow to hard because of the windsavers.
The low octave is kinda where I've been hanging out so far. Well the first two. Ive figured out a few licks based on the scales and messing with different runs and octaves. They really do have a great sound and are a ton of fun. Don't think it ll ever replace the diatonic for me, but its great none the less.
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Diggsblues
2023 posts
May 01, 2016
7:04 AM
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@killa Windsavers have been a blessing and a curse for ages on the harmonica. When I studied with Robert Bonfiglio in the winter time he always had me put my 2016 on the radiator before the lesson. I saw him play with string quartet doing Mozart and he had his spare under his seat in a heating pad. Cham-ber and Frank Huang experimented with a lot of valves for the 2016. Some even used micropore surgical tape.
Oh by the way chrom can do some great blues not just 3rd position but it takes some study.
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Killa_Hertz
1242 posts
May 01, 2016
7:27 AM
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Yea. Blessing and a curse seems to be the way everyone describes them .. lol.
Blues .. Im having a hard time finding sources to study. In a perfect world i would love something similar to adams tradebits for chrom. Or even just some licks or songs to get me started.
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Gnarly
1764 posts
May 01, 2016
8:10 AM
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Went to see Bill Barrett play here in San Diego last night. The music was all blues based, and Bill played chromatic all night--and sang, I like his singing. I had refurbished some CX-12 plates for Bill and gave them to him at the gig.
Windsavers, I like to say they are a bane and a boon. The solution to most problems is to keep the harp warm while you are playing it. That requires something you either attach to the harp, or hold up to it. A bit of a pain, but it works.
I use Hotsnapz when I am playing outside, otherwise I am hating life.
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Diggsblues
2024 posts
May 01, 2016
10:15 AM
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@killa I'd say the best play to start is with studying the blues scale on the chrom. I think maybe d, a, and e to start with. I mean the one with the root b3 4 b5 5 and b7 8.
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Gnarly
1766 posts
May 01, 2016
11:11 AM
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Right, that's the minor pentatonic with an added flat five.
So in D, it's D F G Ab A C
It's also the F major pentatonic with a minor and major third.
Last Edited by Gnarly on May 01, 2016 11:12 AM
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WinslowYerxa
1135 posts
May 01, 2016
11:52 AM
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I wrote a series of article on playing blues on chromatic in various "sharp" keys (B, E, A ,D). Sound samples and tab/notation are included. You can access them by clicking here:
The six-note blues scale is of course worth studying, but it's only one thread in the multi-colored fabric of the blues. Diatonic blues harmonica makes relatively little use of it - you may disagree, but really listen to how much use it gets. You really hear that six-note blues scale far more in jazz, where a soloist may use it for awhile with other scales before and after - and sometimes during. It's easier to access on the chromatic, though, because you don't have to bend or overblow to play it.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Join us in 2016 for SPAH on the San Antonio River Walk!
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on May 01, 2016 1:34 PM
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Gnarly
1767 posts
May 01, 2016
12:18 PM
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This has nothing to do with windsavers or chromatic harp, but I hear folks go back and forth between major and minor pentatonic (and the 6 note scale) all the time--I think this is a common Mooncat theme . . . and sometimes the player switches between 2nd and 3rd to achieve this.
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WinslowYerxa
1137 posts
May 01, 2016
1:41 PM
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@gnarly -
The six-note blues scale has two commonly used modes:
for instance, yo could take the A blues scale:
A C D Eb E G
and start it on C instead:
C D Eb E G A
The mode that starts on C is like a major pentatonic scale with the minor third (Eb) added.
But, going back to A, what if we used that major mode starting on A?
Then we'd get two scales: a minor-sounding one:
A C D Eb E G
and a major-sounding one:
A B C C# E F#
You can alternate between these two scales, choosing one or the other depending on what chord is going on in the background or depending on the tone color you want to create. There's an entire book written about how jazz musicians use these two scales (blues musicians do it, too, but probably intellectualize it less):
http://www.shermusic.com/new/1883217385.shtml
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Join us in 2016 for SPAH on the San Antonio River Walk!
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on May 01, 2016 1:59 PM
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Killa_Hertz
1247 posts
May 01, 2016
1:46 PM
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"Nothing to do with windsavers." No worries Gnarly, im the main offender of going off topic. Im also a fan of just letting posts evolve as the must. 8^)
That's good insight. Im still trying to fully get into all that stuff. But changing the scales via 2nd, 3rd , etc. ... isn't that essentially what your doing when playing the changes on a 12 bar?
On the chrom. The first thing i did was learn the major pentatonic and the blues scale in C. Also of course if you know the blues scale you just drop the flat five, so i kno the minor pent. aswell. Now how to really fully implement them is another thing. I just use them to find riffs by playing with the notes.
Ive really got to put some work in and learn more about it. Its been a long drawn out process so far. But i have learned alot in a year.
Winslow that link is fantastic. I only gave it a quick look so far, but it seems to be EXACTLY what i need.
Thanks Alot.
Im also still working on your Blues Harp for Dummies. It's been slow going aswell. Im not much of a reader (A.D.D. is not very reader friendly ... lol ) Its a great book though. Lots of great info in there. Again I just need to put some work in. I think the chromatic may actually help with the diatonic aswell. Help me understand everything better by leveraging knowledge the other way.
Thanks
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Gnarly
1768 posts
May 01, 2016
6:54 PM
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Yes Winslow, that's exactly what I am talking about.
Thanks for spelling it out.
Ultimately, of course, it's about the right note at the right time--but these give you a mouthful of other notes to include in your lines.
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Killa_Hertz
1256 posts
May 01, 2016
7:22 PM
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Ok so maybe yall can clear this up for me. We were talking about this in another thread. And this was part of my post.
MTG ... Now we know im not exactly the authority on scales n such. But I use all those notes all the time. I had no idea i was really switching between major and minor blues scale. Or whatever.
I thought i was just playing the blues scale,but adding 2b,3d,and 5b. (I guess. Truthfully i never really thought about it) I mean i play 2 blow quite a bit. Mostly as a passing note, but as a held note aswell. That goes for 5 blow also.
As i said in the other thread. It's probably most on chord changes. So if you look at it that way ..... am i playing major blues in 2nd or minor blues in 1st (or 3rd im not sure which, but i think its first.) Maybe i have a point here .. maybe i don't .. im not really sure, but ... Anyhow. Im confused. 8^/
Sorry maybe that past is confusing in itself, but ... if you play certain notes, don't they change what they are (scale wise) dependeing on when you play them?
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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on May 01, 2016 7:25 PM
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Gnarly
1769 posts
May 01, 2016
11:01 PM
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I am a little confused, since my brain is in chromatic mode, as per the thread title.
But what the scale tones mean changes depending on the chord--or least, you can think of them that way.
So the blow chord is I in C, but IV in G. And the C major scale works over the G chord, but the main notes are G, B and D (and possible F, but maybe F# if the tonality is major--of course, then you are in G!)
I think I will end with that, rather than further muddying the waters.
Last Edited by Gnarly on May 01, 2016 11:02 PM
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WinslowYerxa
1138 posts
May 02, 2016
9:28 AM
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There are several ways of looking at note choices.
By the way, playing minor blues in first position requires overblow 1 and 4, so you're probably not doing that. It would sound pretty weird on a second position tune anyway.
=== THE CHORD TONE FILTER
One way is looking at the notes in the chords. For instance, in second position:
The I chord:
Draw 2 is the home note of the chord (and the key) and Draw 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, and Blow 3, 6, and 9 are all chord notes. (Blow 6 and 9 are also chord root notes).
Draw 5 and 6, and Draw 9 and 10, are extensions of the basic chord.
The IV chord:
All the blow notes form this chord. The root note is found in Blow 1, 4, 7, and 10.
The V chord:
Normally the V chord is a major chord. But in second position, standard diatonic tuning gives you a minor chord in Draw 4-5-6 and again in Draw 8-9-10. Draw 3 and 7 add a color note to the chord. Draw 2 and 3 form part of the I chord but you can bend them down to create chord notes - including the note that makes the chord major, Draw 2 bent down only one semitone.
When you use the chord approach like above, anything that isn't part of the chord is unstable in some way and creates either tension or added color. Non-chord tones can be viewed either as extensions (like the 7th in a 7th chord) or as stepping stones between chord notes.
BLUES ADDITION: IN blues in general, you can assume that the flat 7 is added to all three basic chords. That means that most of the time when you go to the IV chord, you need to flatten the 3rd note of the scale - like bending Draw 3 down a semitone. Many players treat this as a hard and fast rule, but Little Walter didn't - just listen to the first few verses of Off the Wall.
===THE FUNKY MAJOR SCALE
Let's say you take the major scale and add the three so-called blue notes to it: The flat 3, 5 and 7. The C funky major scale would look like this:
C D Eb E F Gb G a Bb B C.
This contains both the major and minor blues scales, and all the notes of the I, IV and V chords. You can just string the notes together freely (keeping in mind how the chord in the background is going to affect how they sound) or filter your note choices down to a subset, such as the minor blues scale. This is the most flexible, free-wheeling approach, but you can also benefit from a more disciplined approach as in the book I mentioned.
I could go much further but this is some of the most essential information.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Join us in 2016 for SPAH on the San Antonio River Walk!
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Goldbrick
1415 posts
May 02, 2016
10:46 AM
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Keeping it real simple. The way I look at at = you generally have two choices ( and you can mix these)
In a regular 1, 4, 5 progression
You can use the minor pentatonic scale over all the chords ( which many people- especially guitarists do)
Or you can play the changes as in jazz and use the scale of each chord as you change chords
Most songs unless its a rhythm based piece I will use some of both
When your lost play roots and 5s like a bass player over each chord and you cant lose
The big thing is have a plan going in-- thats the downfall of most who just try to " improvise"
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WinslowYerxa
1140 posts
May 02, 2016
12:32 PM
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Problem with the minor pentatonic scale is that in second position it gets hard to play above Blow 6 as you need an overblow to extend it any higher.
If you listen to most of the masters, they really spend a lot of time working off the draw notes in the first 5 holes, inflecting them as needed to fit the chord going by (lower Draw 3 for the IV chord, lower Draw 2 for the IV chord.) Blow notes are largely used as stepping stones.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Join us in 2016 for SPAH on the San Antonio River Walk!
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on May 02, 2016 12:33 PM
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Goldbrick
1416 posts
May 02, 2016
12:56 PM
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Not sure why staying below draw 6 is a problem thats where the harp is sweetest to my ear
Most of us just want to play well and have no illusions of mastery.
A limited palette can lead to competency and tight play and less frustration
Just listen to guys like Elmore James, Albert Collins and Albert King--they made the best of what they did well
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chromaticblues
1758 posts
May 03, 2016
9:13 AM
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@Killa Hertz I am going to be covering all these issues on my Facebook page "Chromatic Blues Harmonica". I'm in the process of getting a mic for my computer that sounds better than the one in it. I'll cover the basic stuff and things to practice to get better at playing more difficult techniques.
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Killa_Hertz
1269 posts
May 03, 2016
10:04 AM
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Thanks ... by coincidence i just found it last night. I left you a message about your video.
That's good stuff. Nobody seems to be covering the chromatic in the way your taking about. I'm really excited to see what you do on your page.
The techniques and nuances is what i really want to know. It's hard to understand exactly what im hearing the pros in listening to are doing.
It sound like they are bending notes sometimes. Which is confusing.
I just want to know how to think chromatic. If that makes sense. Ive got a light handle on it from messing with scales and whatnot, but i want to know the real deep stuff.
Also chromatic maintenance (as you brought up in your FB post) would be extremely helpful.
Again Thanks in Advance for taking the time to make the videos and teach about the chromatic harp.
Can wait to see your next video.
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chromaticblues
1759 posts
May 03, 2016
11:20 AM
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Your welcome and glad to do it. I hope they help!
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Killa_Hertz
1270 posts
May 03, 2016
3:33 PM
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Winslow, Gnarly, Goldbrick
Thanks for all the info. I had to wait for the right time to really digest all that.
It's all still a lil Chinese to me, but I'm getting it more and more.
Winslow, while i agree with gold brick that there isn't really anything wrong wuth staying at the bottom. I still would like to advance to the top at times. If only to just mix it up.
You say with the minor pent. It's hard to pay above 6 because of OB. Well what are your other options?
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Gnarly
1770 posts
May 03, 2016
3:38 PM
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Not trying to be anal, but this thread has wandered off its Subject Line, so I am going to answer this on a new thread.
Hope I don't get in trouble--
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