Sarge
531 posts
Feb 05, 2016
1:59 PM
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Easttop harmonicas are coming up in the world. Rockin Ron is now carrying them. I have the T008S and I really like it. I know there was a discussion about them on here a while back. Some liked them some didn't. I guess that's why there are different harmonicas so everyone can have their own favorite that's different from someone else's favorite.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
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Killa_Hertz
439 posts
Feb 05, 2016
2:25 PM
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I assume they are close to a manji or suzuki harp. Is this close to accurate?
I saw rons had em in stock.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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sonny3
309 posts
Feb 05, 2016
5:39 PM
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I must be a sucker for low quality harps. I bought the 008s model after good reviews and I like it!!! PLAYS better than any three Manjis that I tried.Go figure.They do seem to have some similarities to Suzukis.I'm still a Hohner fella but that East top is nice.
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528hemi
498 posts
Feb 05, 2016
6:13 PM
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If you adjust the Easttop and adjust a manji so you have 2 good playing harps you will see the light. Of course if you get a manji that needs gapping, warped reedplate or comb that is not flat and compare it to another brand that happens to be perfect OOTB it is not a fair comparison. I did not care for the comb or covers on the easttop. Tone was nice playing chords, good volume. Good for a 25 dollar harp if you love it.
I had a T008s as well. If you want an easttop you can find one in my local dump.
Edit Forgot to mention it comes in a plastic case with a cleaning rag which I kept. :)
528hemi
Last Edited by 528hemi on Feb 05, 2016 6:19 PM
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Harp Study
175 posts
Feb 05, 2016
7:55 PM
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I haven't tried an Easttop harp yet, but I've tried several Manji's and to be honest I've been disappointed personally. I've never got one that didn't need some work; which is fine, but I've gotten some that appear that the reed plate has been run over by a truck. I can spend half the time on a Special 20 or a Golden Melody and have a better playing harp from the Manji's I've gotten. I gave them a real chance; as I own at least five of them. Not trying to hate on the Manji's; I really wanted to like them, but just have had some really terrible harps from the majority of the ones I've gotten.
Last Edited by Harp Study on Feb 05, 2016 8:00 PM
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528hemi
499 posts
Feb 05, 2016
8:23 PM
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Harp Study
I've had my share of bad ones as well and I really hate that but with some work they can shine.
I also have a set of SP 20's which as you mention need less time and work and play very nice especially if you put marine band covers on them.
Hey...everyone has different preferences. For awhile I placed my manjis as backups to my SP20's and recently really spent time comparing the tone and feel and went back to Manjis for price, tone and feel. I use more attack if that is the right word compared to the SP20.
As Jason Ricci says like a heavier string on a guitar but tone is more pure and you can really grab and hold the bends. Some like that some don't. I think it is what you get used to playing.
If you want to sell your crappy Manjis let me know.
528hemi
Last Edited by 528hemi on Feb 05, 2016 10:16 PM
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Killa_Hertz
447 posts
Feb 05, 2016
9:53 PM
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I think u hit it on the head with the manji. I spent a long time trying to get my manji to play like a hohner. It just ain't happenin'. It plays great if you really play it with some attack. Sounds great, looks great. But i like to play really soft sometimes and in that department the manji just doesnt shine.
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A440
524 posts
Feb 07, 2016
1:06 PM
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These Easttops might be similar to a Suzuki Harpmaster, but I have trouble believing they are comparable to a Manji.
Chinese harp manufacturing is getting better, so its probably a matter of time. (The new Powerbenders that Brendan is selling look like a decent quality product.)
I'll stick with Seydel, Suzuki, and Hohner for awhile... they deliver consistently good products at a fair price. I don't feel a need to experiment with new brands, and in fact I already have too many different models from the Big Three.
Last Edited by A440 on Feb 07, 2016 1:50 PM
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mlefree
552 posts
Feb 08, 2016
4:52 AM
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Quite honestly...
I get disappointed and disgruntled when I see players compare different brands of harmonicas with a broad stroke. Not aiming at any particular individual -- I see this ~all~ the time. "Never buy a brand B harmonica. Brand A harps are better than brand B. My brand A harmonica plays so much better than my brand B harp."
If there's anything a player with a level of interest sufficient to draw him/her to this forum should know it's that no OTOB harmonica is set up for ~them~ (or any other individual).
The setup of any particular harmonica is solely dependent on the experience level, instructions from their supervisor, time allotted per reed and even the mood any particular factory technician happened to be in on the day they set up a harp. As a result, no two harmonicas -- even of the same brand -- can be compared without optimizing them for that player first, by at least setting reed gaps.
Only after setting up two harmonicas in the same way is an apple-to-apple comparison of their reeds meaningful. I can, for example, take a cheapie Chinese knock-off harp and set it up so it will play better than an OOTB brand name harp. That's no test of its longevity, tone, comfort in the hand and mouth and so on. But it makes about as much sense as comparing two OOTB harps of the same or different manufacturer.
Frankly, when I see someone make a blanket statement comparing two brands of harmonicas like I described above, I can pretty much bet that they're an inexperienced player who is basically puffing their online chest with meaningless information that could confuse other inexperienced players.
Have you ever noticed that you just don't see seasoned pros who are endorsed by a big league harmonicas company out and out say that their brand is "better" than another. They'll puff all day about how wonderful their brand is OOTB but they'll stop short of any blanket brand-based value judgements. Watch that Suzuki OOTB seminar for SPAH 2015 if you don't believe me.
That's because they understand the truth of what I just said.
Michelle
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Last Edited by mlefree on Feb 08, 2016 4:54 AM
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Sarge
532 posts
Feb 08, 2016
7:25 AM
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Spot on Michelle!
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
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STME58
1558 posts
Feb 08, 2016
7:29 AM
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Michelle, the phenomenon you are describing is not unique to harp players, you see it in every field of human endeavor that involves equipment. It takes a while to become seasoned enough at anything to understand the Yin and Yang of equipment. It is both critical to top performance, and it doesn't matter all that much. You also find that the minimum level required in equipment is achieved pretty low in the cost continuum and is dependent more on the quality of the set up that the quality of the equipment. If I have a Ferrari and I am racing Dan Gurney in a Toyota, I'm still going to loose. Especially if we each set up our own cars! That is not to say there is no value in high end equipment, again Yin and Yang.
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isaacullah
3134 posts
Feb 08, 2016
10:17 AM
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The problem with, well, pretty much anything that requires "gear" to do is that it takes a loooong time, and often, A LOT of money outlaid before a single person could possibly have learned enough about the activity AND *really* tested out the full range of available "gear" to truly know what their preferences are. That long journey is a precipitous time for people, with true risks that one must take before proceeding. Often, people are really worried about the money they have had to spend, and so they are really "fans" of whatever it was that they bought that seemed to work for them right away. This is magnified by inexperience and the natural overcompensation in social situations that accompanies that. It's only after a lot of time and humbling self-assessment that one can come to a reasoned decision about gear based on knowledge of one's own skill, understanding of the various opportunities afforded by different instruments, and preferences for playing and tonality. I feel, however, that this will always be a "moving target," as your skill-level and preferences will change, and instrument-makers will constantly be coming out with new alternatives. Personally, I've come the long way around to being very happy with Hohner Special 20 harmonicas. I "know" that a Special 20 gives me what I want at this point. That, sadly, doesn't stop me from want to try out MOAR HARMONICAS! Lol! :)
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mlefree
554 posts
Feb 08, 2016
10:24 AM
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Yeah, I get that, Steve.
But it is still worth stating the truth so that less experienced players avoid dead ends on that "long way around" to settling on a brand that fits like Isaac and I have undergone on our journeys back to the venerated and often overlooked Hohner Special 20s.
Michelle
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JustFuya
844 posts
Feb 08, 2016
6:40 PM
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As I see it there is not a lot of difference between those who make blanket statements and those who group people who make those statements into a category.
One manufacturer caused me enough grief that I concentrated on other instruments for a decade or two. When I found this site a couple of years ago I had that ax to grind and did so. Then I moved on and consumed a ton of helpful information about our little beast.
As Isaac stated we are dealing with a moving target. Changing manufacturing techniques and retirement of skilled hands can be a painful process for both the maker and the end user. I don't begrudge the holders of negative opinions. An astute shopper will consider the source and have grains of salt on hand.
As far as endorsement goes I believe bad mouthing the competition is covered in the 101 class.
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MindTheGap
1132 posts
Feb 08, 2016
11:37 PM
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As one of your inexperienced players, I can tell you that I've found readings people's finding about different harp models very helpful indeed. People can only report what they've found - either from a small or large sample - and it's useful to hear all of them.
Because there are so many results reported, it's been quite easy to build up a picture of what's going on.
Because there are so many models of harp on the market, it's difficult to have first hand experience of all of them.
Sometimes the opinions are about practical or aesthetic details like comfort, temperament, shape of the covers, length of the cover screws. Sometimes they report their experiences of getting a lemon, bad gaps, bend reed plates. Sometimes reporting the ones they've got that play beautifully OOTB.
So I welcome all these reports, from players of all experience. Including the strong opinions.
Lots of small samples build up into a bigger picture.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 08, 2016 11:46 PM
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MindTheGap
1133 posts
Feb 08, 2016
11:41 PM
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A second and complete separate point is that getting stuck into the world of harmonica models, and developing your own likes and dislikes which may change over time and with experiences - well, it's part of the fun.
Suggesting that people shouldn't express their opinions and findings until they get to some arbitrary level of experience is denying them the fun that I expect many of the current crop of experienced players enjoyed.
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MindTheGap
1134 posts
Feb 08, 2016
11:57 PM
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A third point is that, personally, I'm likely to take the opinions of an endorser with a larger pinch of salt. For obvious reasons. And the endorsers are typically going to be wonderful, experienced, admirable musicians.
Actually, I started reading this thread as they are now selling Easttop Chromatic harmonics in the UK, and I wanted to find out what people thought of those.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 09, 2016 12:57 AM
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Killa_Hertz
494 posts
Feb 09, 2016
3:33 AM
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Justfuya and MTG ... well said.
I think no matter what you have to try them ALL for yourself. And then try them again. And again. Opinions change as well as what you need out of the harp changes as you gain experience. Also stereotypes often exist for a reason. If enough people come to the same conclusion there is probably some truth to it. And i think we are all smart enough to take it all with a grain of salt. Most of the time is just something to ramble on about.
However i do take your point michelle.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Feb 09, 2016 3:34 AM
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jbone
2147 posts
Feb 09, 2016
3:56 AM
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I was given two Easttops to wring out and I'm in the process. I'm not a guy who tears a harp down and regaps, polishes, ports, supercharges, and does all that stuff to a harp. My expectation of a harp is that it will perform out of the box. If I have to mess with it I'm already done with it. My cars and fishing reels are the same, they work when I get them or I'm done with that flavor.
I've been playing harps for 43 years. I have tried a lot in that time, not all but a lot. I've seen a good harp slip in quality to where I wouldn't buy one except in a pinch. I've seen a lot of new kids come onto the block and given them a try. I've had a few customs. I have yet to delve into the mysteries of gapping and tuning except in a very basic way. Perhaps all those years of rock concerts and loud factory environments have done damage to my hearing.
But people seem to respond to my playing whether it's a custom MB or a $4 Johnson so I think I do ok.
We all have our perspectives. That's what makes forums so cool. We don't have to agree, but it's best if we stay agreeable and afford each other a certain respect. This forum espouses that quality and I appreciate that.
I have two Easttops as I said, and I'm in process of trying them out in the duo setting. Both are performing for me pretty well. The one with the stainless steel comb has some real good sound projection and to me is nicely in tune. The solid plastic comb model is pretty admirable as well up to this point. I've been cautioned about pulling the 008s apart since the gaskets used in it are tricky to realign. This may be a drawback. I'm looking for longevity along with initial quality here. I'm also looking to be able to disassemble and reassemble to keep things clean and clear.
So the jury is still out at Jawbone Central. Along with Easttop I have a lot of Suzukis, mostly Manji, a custom MB or two, Big River, Sp20, and some odd ducks as well in my case. I'm taking my time so as to do the test justice.
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Killa_Hertz
495 posts
Feb 09, 2016
4:31 AM
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Sure j bone. I'd i didn't pull harps apart i would Hate then all. I rarely get a harp ootb that's good. They all need a little something. Atleast tweaking in the 123 hole area. But to each his own i suppose.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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harpwrench
1064 posts
Feb 09, 2016
7:26 AM
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Comparisons with Suzuki are kinda invited by emphasis on their use of phosphor bronze, welded reeds. I set up 528Hemi's harps in C so he could compare fairly. I'm not knocking the Easttop, it played okay and I wouldn't have tossed it. It tuned up nicely and would probably get better with time and playing. Just reporting that there's physically nothing Manji about it, for players curious about that as I was.
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Last Edited by harpwrench on Feb 09, 2016 2:45 PM
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mlefree
556 posts
Feb 09, 2016
8:52 AM
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I'm sorry, but to me, a harmonica player who never opens up their instruments is like a guitar player who never changes their strings.
I don't recall hearing of a guitar player who retired their guitar because its strings went dead and bought a new replacement instrument.
But maybe that's just me and my old curmudgeonly outlook these days.
Michelle
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Last Edited by mlefree on Feb 09, 2016 8:54 AM
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Spderyak
71 posts
Feb 09, 2016
10:13 AM
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A guitar player changes strings//??...only kidding.
On the other hand I drive a car that I mostly know absolutely next to nothing about.
Not taking every thing apart is 2nd nature for some of us.
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nacoran
8927 posts
Feb 09, 2016
10:52 AM
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I haven't posted one in a while, but at various points I've laid out lists of some of the more easily identifiable traits of harps- their temperament, their cover shape, their comb material, whether they have recessed or protruding reed plates, side vents, different manufacturers or whatever. My advice to a beginner is you are going to need different harps in different keys as you try to build out your first full set. You might at least use that first set to see which you like best. I've discovered that I prefer recessed reeds unless the protruding reeds are sanded, rounded tines, rounded corners- but I don't like the feel of the jellybeans like GMs. I prefer plastic to wood, at least until you get into higher end combs, am indifferent on open or closed backs (although I can hear the difference), ambivalent on side vents, prefer full length cover plates, and generally lean a bit more towards ET, particularly on higher harps where I'm less likely to be chugging chords. And I figured most of that out by the time I had a full set. (I also like Turbolids, but they don't fit on custom combs and don't fit in my cases. I like Seydel but think Lee Oskars give you more bang for your buck. I am surprised, on a harp that costs as much as it does, how many sharp edges the Crossover has. I like old pre-MS Blues Harps.
I don't think you'll have a good idea of what harp you prefer until you get about a dozen harps in, and your tastes may change at any time. But that first set of harps is a great place to take some chances figuring out what you like by checklisting the different features and manufacturers out there. As you start to get an idea of what you like you can ask questions like, 'Okay, I like the sound of a Golden Melody but don't like the shape, is there another harp that sounds sort of like it that has a different shape.'
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Tuckster
1501 posts
Feb 09, 2016
12:09 PM
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Great post,Nate.
Back on topic-I got a 16 hole chromatic. I've only had it for a few days,but it's a nice harp. Very ergonomic-it feels smaller to play than my 280. For the price,it's a good deal.
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Goldbrick
1304 posts
Feb 09, 2016
1:51 PM
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I love the shape of the Golden Melody but I am not crazy about the tuning or plastic comb
It could be changed of course but its easier and cheaper to just use something else
Not sure why easttop is in the market dont really seem to be adding anything new and they arent cheaper than other stuff equal in features.
I also see Ron,s says contact the distributor if you have problems
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Crawforde
63 posts
Feb 09, 2016
2:18 PM
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I like my Easttops and NewHarmonica has a one year warranty.
The products are nice, similar to Suzuki in appearance and design, but a different feel and sound, at least to me. I think the phos-bronze they use is harder than Suzuki's.
I do no know if that is a plus or not, just different. Some people like stainless steel, and some like brass. Beginners like me need to try a variety to see what we like best.
At least that's what I tell myself.
The Quality seems excellent.
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A440
527 posts
Feb 10, 2016
4:26 AM
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I just did a quick inventory. In my collection of 40-50 diatonic harps, I have 16 different models (ignoring variations in key or tuning): 8 from Hohner, 3 from Seydel, 3 from Suzuki, 1 from Hering, and 1 from Oskar/Tombo. Out of these 16, there are 5 models that I really like, use regularly, and continue to buy. It would be hard to give up any of my 5 favourite models.
I regularly open them to clean, and do basic gapping, slight embossing, and sanding when needed. I have 1 aftermarket comb.
Its hard to get excited about Easttop. I don't feel a need to try additional brands and models, nor do I have the money to do so (if it's just adding another to the category of lesser loved, and rarely played, models).
Correction: I am itching to try a Yonberg ;-)
Last Edited by A440 on Feb 10, 2016 5:18 AM
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mlefree
560 posts
Feb 10, 2016
5:36 AM
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Nate, that is some sound and sage advice, well stated and succinctly put. Thanks!
MTG and others, it's a matter of statistics and sampling theory.
With what are basically random samples, it takes a ~lot~ of opinions to make a sound judgement, especially if said opinions are not based on a significant amount of experience.
I'd be very interested to know just how anyone who has followed such opinions how they guided you in your own quest for finding "your" brand. And, did you strike pay dirt the first time out based on what you concluded from reading opinions. Or maybe you feel that it shortened your search and made it more efficient?
I'm not being snarky; I would genuinely like to know. Maybe I'm off base with my previously stated opinion. I am not closed minded and I'm ready and willing to be convinced otherwise.
Thanks,
Michelle
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Last Edited by mlefree on Feb 10, 2016 5:41 AM
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MindTheGap
1142 posts
Feb 10, 2016
6:10 AM
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Michelle - Well, there are a LOT of opinions about different models of harps on here, with all sorts of detail.
A few concrete examples then:
- A friend, who's been playing much longer than me, so no lack of playing experience, heard/saw some Harpmasters I had. Liked the idea and bought some himself. When he got them, he thought they were rubbish because some holes wouldn't play. I expect that they just needed a bit of gapping, but he gave them up as a bad job and when back to his higher-end harps. If he'd tuned into the gossip here, he would have known that. He doesn't want to gap them, he wants to buy them set up. Some people have the guitar shop change their strings, tweak the intonation and set the neck angle.
-Killa_Hertz and his liking for MB 1896. I've tried one and found it a bit rough round the edges: literally. He has reported enjoying working on them, making them feel and play better. kHz is exemplary because he is straightforward about his lack of years of experience, but isn't shy of getting stuck in. I've learned two useful things by reading kHz enthuse about his work: 1. you can make a MB more comfortable to play, with details 2. you can get enjoyment out of making it 'your own work'. Specifically because he is a relative beginner, I find that more inspiring - to me, at a similar level, I mean.
-Lee Oskars. I like LOs and was saved from hours scrabling round on the floor with a torch because I read Nate say that the cover screws are very short and they ping off into the void if you're not careful.
I've also read about their 'tache-grabbing feature, and how you can fix that with a bit of epoxy. You don't need years of experience and a record deal to point that out.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 10, 2016 7:48 AM
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MindTheGap
1143 posts
Feb 10, 2016
6:15 AM
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As to the OP, in the UK Simpsons Guitars are selling East Top harps. The diatonic model is called T-004 Pro Series, which is not the T-008. They are £9, I wonder has anyone tried one of those?
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MindTheGap
1145 posts
Feb 10, 2016
6:36 AM
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I forgot, you've not addressed my 2nd point - that it's enjoyable to chew the cud about harmonicas particularly when you are starting out (or bikes, carburettors, longbows, types of veg-tanned leather...).
Ok there will be a certain amount of eyes rolling to heaven by our elders and betters, but hopefully in a kindly, beneficent kind of way :) Particular when the writers seem to be taking the subject seriously, as they do here. I think if they weren't, you'd have a point.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 10, 2016 6:41 AM
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isaacullah
3136 posts
Feb 10, 2016
12:10 PM
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I admit to being more than a little curious about these EastTops, since they're the new kid on the block. Just had a look at them for sale on Rockin' Ron's site. More expensive than a Special 20? Yeah, no thanks. Not gonna try them out.
In other news I noticed that Ron has the new-stock Delta Frosts for a very good price. Now THAT'S a good alternative harmonica to try out if you haven't yet. Gotta get used to the equal temperament if you're used to compromised tuning, but that harp is comfortable, long-lasting, plays very well, AND cheaper than a Special 20!
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sydeman
158 posts
Feb 10, 2016
1:21 PM
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Not sure if these are the same model but 17 bucks each.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-harmonica-10-holes-Blues-C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C-A-D/32309514684.html?spm=2114.40010508.4.2.FG3aqj
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mlefree
566 posts
Feb 11, 2016
2:20 AM
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Thanks for sharing those experiences, MindTheGap. You make valid points. It does help me understand the attraction to these kind of opinions.
Michelle
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JustFuya
846 posts
Feb 11, 2016
2:26 PM
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I've seen a lot of the working harp kits/lists submitted by forum members and notice a lot of variation within many of them. I think their reasoning would be an interesting read.
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isaacullah
3141 posts
Feb 11, 2016
3:00 PM
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@sydeman, no those aren't the same as either of the models I saw on Ron's site. I'll wait for someone else to try out the cheaper models, as I don't have high hopes. I imagine it's similar in quality to the Hohner "Bluesbender PAC". Probably both are made in the same factory. The Bluesbender is just ok. Better than most cheap harps, but not that great, and certainly no where near Special 20 or Marine Band, or even a Big River, for that matter.
Edit: I just got a nice email from Ron to let me know that he does have those ones in stock too. He's the best!
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Last Edited by isaacullah on Feb 11, 2016 5:44 PM
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isaacullah
3142 posts
Feb 11, 2016
3:06 PM
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responding to nacoran's post: I definitely used the process of building out my first set of harps to try different brands and models out. In retrospect, it was both a great thing to do, and a bad one. What I mean by that is that it was really the oNLY way I could get to know what I wanted from a harp. That's a great thing. The bad thing is that I ended up with a piecemeal set of harps that all play different and sound different. I've found myself now craving to have a complete set of Special 20's all set up the way I like them, but that's probably not going to happen any time soon. I do have a small set of Easy Third harps that are all Special 20's, and I seem to be gravitating towards playing that set more than any other set. Not just because I like that tuning, but also because I find I just love the consistency of playing across the whole set. My piecemeal set of standard Richter's makes it just harder to go from key to key without recalibrating for the way each different make/model plays.
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jbone
2148 posts
Feb 11, 2016
9:14 PM
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I have just always adapted to what the individual instrument would do. If the is a problem with a note I do tweak a bit but I do as little as possible to a harp past keeping it clean and playing it.
Same with bikes, tools, firearms, etc.
I'm happy, y'all are happy, let's be happy.
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1847
3191 posts
Feb 11, 2016
10:22 PM
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jbone touches on something you do not hear discussed,
adjusting your technique to the harmonica, as opposed to adjusting the harp.
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