Ian
268 posts
Feb 04, 2016
3:38 AM
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So, my question is.
Do you feel that playing, or at least trying to play chromatic, makes you a better diatonic player?
I've been messing around with a chromatic for a short while and it's fun, not sure if it's affecting my diatonic playing one way or the other, but it's nice to try something different from time to time.
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Michael Rubin
1103 posts
Feb 04, 2016
4:22 AM
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100% convinced. There is a marked difference between my students who spend time on chrome and those who do not.
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6SN7
635 posts
Feb 04, 2016
5:19 AM
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I have been "woodshedding" on my chro for the last 4 months. I have been concentrating on 2 songs to play with my band and also working several solo pieces, think Christmas carols. Now, I'll be honest, I don't think I am at the point to play chro in public (no gussing !!) but there are several things that I have noticed in my diatonic playing as a result of playing chro. Breath control and use of air is probably #1 as one must economize this when playing chro. #2 would be concentrating on playing the blues scale backwards and forwards. I found it came quickly on the chro but a little slower on the diatonic probably because I am "unlearning" certain past habits and doing something new and different.
#3 would be it is all new to me and I can feel me growing as a player.
I practice scales every morning for 15-20 minutes. Later in the day, I word on jam tracks and learning set pieces. It's been a slow growth but i am encouraged.
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Feb 04, 2016 5:21 AM
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Gnarly
1642 posts
Feb 04, 2016
7:19 AM
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I practice chrom more than diatonic--the instruments are very similar, but as Winslow will tell you, not exactly the same.
Each requires woodshedding to get to an acceptable level for public performance. The difference with diatonic is that there are no avoid notes.
Getting used to valved bends is a challenge, also the issues associated with condensation on the outside valves can be a real stopper.
I think learning to play a small portable keyboard is the best move any diatonic player can make. But I can't carry that around with me!
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Piro39
92 posts
Feb 04, 2016
7:20 AM
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When I started playing the chromatic years ago I was only thinking about 3rd and 10th position playing. At some point I had the desire to also explore other possibilities and bought some Abersold books and play-along cds which led to my study of music theory which I applied to the chromatic and eventually to the diatonic. Studying music theory greatly improved my playing on both harmonicas not to mention my slide guitar playing. I once thought that you only use the notes of the blues scale to play blues. It was a very ridgid concept.
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slaphappy
163 posts
Feb 04, 2016
9:50 AM
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I think there's a lot of benefits but the one I've noticed most is how playing the chrom has improved my tone on the diatonic. You really have to open up on the Chrom and enlarge the imaginary golf ball in the back of your throat. Taking this back to the diatonic pays dividends.
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4' 4+ 3' 2~~~
-Mike Ziemba
Harmonica is Life!
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barbequebob
3135 posts
Feb 04, 2016
11:11 AM
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I can give you one IMMEDIATE benefit of learning a chromatic is that it forces you to use considerably better breath control because chromatics don't take very well to be played as hard as a diatonic, PLUS in order to get the note bending down correctly with a chromatic, the way self taught players tend to make a bent note happen is by using at least double to five times a much breath force to make it happen will NEVER work on a chromatic and once you learn to not use so much breath force, your bends will become 100% more accurate, plus you'll do a lot less damage to your harps because they will get blown out FAR less frequently.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Diggsblues
1958 posts
Feb 04, 2016
11:33 AM
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Think of it as cross training.
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Ian
271 posts
Feb 04, 2016
12:28 PM
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Interesting points, the bending and breath control element wasn't something that I thought of when considering the pros.
Having just had a couple of practice sessions I reckon accuracy is helped by noodling on the chromatic.
Do you think note layout etc could adversely affect the diatonic player by kinda messing with muscle memory?
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barbequebob
3136 posts
Feb 04, 2016
12:56 PM
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@Ian -- The only way muscle memory could be affected is if you allow that to happen. With a chromatic, it sure helps if you take the time to learn some basic theory, especially scales and modes in all possible positions because it will help make you a much better musician overall. In order to learn anything on any instrument, you have to develop muscle memory. Even when you use a diatonic that is not tuned the standard richter tuning, you have a learning curve that's necessary in order to develop muscle memory, the same as doing things that harp players are often make lame excuses (and I've hear EVERY single one of them) not to do, and that's learning basic theory and time, two things the average player is horrible at. If you don't work at anything, be it learning the chromatic, breath control or anything else, no way can muscle memory ever develop and you never improve on anything at all, plain and simple.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Ian
272 posts
Feb 04, 2016
4:17 PM
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Thanks bob, good feedback.
One of the main reasons I wanted to add some chromatic was to force myself back in to music theory. I used to play the sax, so I hope some of it should come back!
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slaphappy
164 posts
Feb 04, 2016
4:22 PM
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Ian,
FWIW I haven't noticed any note layout/muscle memory problems switching between chrom and diatonic. I think as long as your mental models are solid for both you won't have any problem.
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4' 4+ 3' 2~~~
-Mike Ziemba
Harmonica is Life!
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timeistight
1923 posts
Feb 05, 2016
11:13 AM
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"One of the main reasons I wanted to add some chromatic was to force myself back in to music theory. I used to play the sax, so I hope some of it should come back!"
I don't think chromatic harmonica is any better than diatonic for learning theory. If that's your goal, you'd be better off spending your money on a keyboard instrument. That's how all the Jazz guys do it, regardless of their main instrument.
Edit: I see Gnarly said it first: "I think learning to play a small portable keyboard is the best move any diatonic player can make. But I can't carry that around with me!"
You can if you get a micro keyboard. Or a Melodian!
Last Edited by timeistight on Feb 05, 2016 11:22 AM
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LittleWalker
8 posts
Feb 19, 2016
6:37 PM
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Let me draw a comparison to try and illustrate the biggest benefit I get from playing chromatic. When I played Little League Baseball, we used to do arm circles during warm-ups while holding as many baseballs in each hand as we could. Afterwards, the feeling of holding and throwing just ONE ball felt a lot smaller and lighter than the handful we were just warming up with.
Translating that analogy into harmonica-speak, when I practice chromatic for an extended period of time, it really makes you open up if you're trying to get big tone. So after playing that for a while, the feel of an ity-bity diatonic feels all of a sudden much easier to get that monstrous Chicago tone you've been striving for.
I'm sure this is different for other people, but it works well for me and hopefully for some of you as well.
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Dr.Hoy
173 posts
Feb 19, 2016
8:30 PM
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timeistight said:"I don't think chromatic harmonica is any better than diatonic for learning theory."
Why?
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timeistight
1945 posts
Feb 20, 2016
12:25 AM
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"Why?"
Diatonic harmonicas have all the notes that chromatic scale do, if you know where to look.
Chromatic harmonica has the same "flying blind" problem as the diatonic, unlike a keyboard, which lays everything out in front of you.
Chromatic has a limited number of chords available and the chords it gives (I, bII, iimin6, biiimin6) aren't the ones you really want. Diatonic harmonica chords (ii, V9, I), while also limited, are the most important chords in a key. Keyboards give you any chord you can think of.
A young Miles Davis once asked Dizzy Gillespie where he found all the notes he played. Gillespie pointed at a piano and said "there"!
Last Edited by timeistight on Feb 20, 2016 12:27 AM
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jbone
2152 posts
Feb 20, 2016
6:20 AM
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It's def helped my over all playing. The crucial thing was, I made the break into 3rd position on a chromatic, and a little later applied it to diatonic as well. It was like discovering a new country superimposed over the current one. Once that happened for me, my range if you will expanded dramatically. And not just that, after a while I revisited 1st and 2nd positions and became much more fluent in those as my understanding increased.
Maybe it was just me but learning 3rd on chromatic expanded my whole scope of harmonica in general.
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