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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Am I crazy?
Am I crazy?
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HarpNinja
4195 posts
Feb 01, 2016
9:04 AM
For years, I've been trying to get a band going in my hometown. I had a stretch where I had a band an hour away that I ran, but have always wanted to not commute for rehearsals.

The market isn't great and it has prove near impossible. I finally got a couple of people interested - a bass player and drummer.

For years, since Buddha went that route, I've thought of doing a harp driven power trio who plays sorta classic rock stuff...not really a jazz band or blues band. Like Cream of the Jimi Hendrix Experience.

Is that even feasible? Has anyone tried something like that? While I can certainly loop some rhythm harp, and effects are something I can use well, I worry about no real chordal instruments...but maybe I don't have to?

I can think of a lot of pros to trying this. The only real con being the lack of something like keys for guitar to fill out the sound.

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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog

Last Edited by HarpNinja on Feb 01, 2016 9:05 AM
waltertore
2905 posts
Feb 01, 2016
10:36 AM
I say try it and see what happens. If your heart is really in it then it will at least be fun for you. Personally that much harp would not interest me as it would get redundant like heavy metal guitar does for me after a few seconds. I see harp more as seasoning to music than the actual meat/potatoes.
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller

Smiling With Hope Pizza-pizza with a social cause

my videos

HarpNinja
4196 posts
Feb 01, 2016
11:01 AM
That's what I was implying above with reference to chordal instruments as I can't see harp going on all the time.

I could see getting away with a set pretty easy. All of us can play at least some other instrument whether it be keys or guitar, so there is that possibility too.

Originally I had thought of just a keyboard player to start then adding drums. That would let you get away playing anything.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
harmonicanick
2357 posts
Feb 01, 2016
11:22 AM
I have played with just bass and drums and it worked well.

It all depends on how versatile they are.

Anyway its a good start and there must be a guitarist somewhere nearby?
waltertore
2906 posts
Feb 01, 2016
11:52 AM
I think a whole set of only harp in that context would drive most people out the door unless your audience is made up of people like this forum who love harp. If you are doing background music it is much more likely to fly because people really don't pay much attention. I use to tour with a drummer and keyboardist that also doubled on bass and accordion. That worked fine in the 10-2am club days. I played the guitar 95% of the night and used the rack on almost every song to some degree and only a song or 2 holding the harp with no guitar. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller

Smiling With Hope Pizza-pizza with a social cause

my videos

Last Edited by waltertore on Feb 01, 2016 11:55 AM
Harpaholic
823 posts
Feb 01, 2016
11:54 AM
IMO, you need a good guitarist. Keys can be annoying like too much harp unless your Honey Piazza.

A real good rhythm and lead 6 stringer can replace the bass if you have a very good drummer. You have enough talent to make that work, but I think two lead instruments is important to carry the trio.

Last Edited by Harpaholic on Feb 01, 2016 11:56 AM
JInx
1159 posts
Feb 01, 2016
12:13 PM
Harmonica instead of guitar for classic rock like cream and Hendrix? Wrong tool for the job.
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HarpNinja
4197 posts
Feb 01, 2016
12:29 PM
I referenced Cream and Hendrix as they were trios that weren't blues. I don't have any illusions that a harp trio could compare. I just couldn't think of a clearer way to say "not blues".

It has been proven that just harp and drums can carry a Cream tune, though...and while I am at it, I think Marko Balland did the same thing with a tribute to Hendrix album.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Popculture Chameleon
129 posts
Feb 01, 2016
12:32 PM
@jinx- with effects pedals today just about anything is possible on sounds with the harmonica it may not sound perfect but you can get a decent one check out Jason Ricci's cover of the Bluest Blue
I kinda agree with the whole need a guitarist theory especially with some of the old school rock and blues tunes though- but you never know- groups like ZZ top have only 3 members
Am I crazy-
Technically no there isn't a word for m condition :P
(Gotta love that Daffy Duck)
dougharps
1139 posts
Feb 01, 2016
1:20 PM
Maybe ask the bass player to play baritone guitar or regular guitar and play chords and bass lines?

I really think a chording instrument is needed while you sing and solo. You don't have to have a good lead guitar, harp can do lead playing, but the rhythm guitar or keys is pretty much needed.

I agree that you could play a set with bass and drums and make it work,or break it down from time to time during the night, but unless you fill a specific jazz niche like Chris did, I think it would be hard to sustain without a guitar or keys.

I love harp and you have great rock chops. If you played in the area I would come check a trio out, but probably not be a regular attendee.

Edit to add a thought: Duos and trios are much more financially viable around here. Bigger bands are hard to sustain, unless you work real cheap while building a sufficient following to ask for more money.
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Doug S.

Last Edited by dougharps on Feb 01, 2016 1:22 PM
HarpNinja
4198 posts
Feb 01, 2016
1:53 PM
Posting here always helps broaden my perspective. If I could do whatever I want, I'd play in a 4 piece band. Second to that would be a duo or trio.

The problem I have always had is finding a reliable guitar player close to home IME, most are just bidding time to play lead in a full band.

In the last 6 months, I've had that happen twice - one guitar player had hired me for duo gigs and then decided to not do them anymore...like me, he wants to play full band. He had a hard time playing rhythm all night. The 2nd only does solo and duo gigs to supplement income and was recently hired to play lead in a band that plays a fair amount.

I did have the PERFECT guitar player, but he got promoted and had to move.

At this point, I am evaluating any and all options, lol. The full band market here is non-existent. If I had a stable duo or trio, I could play almost every weekend. I've had to turn down two gigs in the last week because I didn't have a backing guitarist.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Barley Nectar
1103 posts
Feb 01, 2016
2:37 PM
Just harp and drums would be a tough sell, even with a good bass player, pretty tough.

I play with 1 or 2 fellows on flat tops. Mostly country and light rock. No blues, no drums, bass, etc. Works fine but you know that.

Hang in there Mike, the tide will change, always does...BN
Harpaholic
824 posts
Feb 01, 2016
2:47 PM
Not trying to be a dick, but here's an idea move away from Duluth if that's where you still live? I have been to Duluth several times, that's all I am going to say about that. I feel your pain, Reno's music scene especially blues is non existent.
It's pathetic!

Point being, someone with your talent and drive should be living in a big music town, seriously!
isaacullah
3128 posts
Feb 01, 2016
3:05 PM
Mike, you mean a trio like this?



These guys have found a good measure of success with that formula, so I image you could do the same!


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isaacullah
3129 posts
Feb 01, 2016
3:09 PM
@Jinx: Yeah, the harmonica is totally the wrong instrument for Cream. Who would be crazy enough to do that though?




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dougharps
1140 posts
Feb 01, 2016
3:15 PM
Another idea is you in a trio with no drums, but with bass and guitar, or a trio with two guitars, which would allow guitar soloing. You would need a good bass player or guitar player who can play bass lines. A lot of venues support quieter bands. You could get loud in other settings and even add a drummer.

Recently one band I am in decided that we would market different configurations based on what the venue would pay.
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Doug S.
ME.HarpDoc
110 posts
Feb 01, 2016
3:43 PM
Heard Gussow play with Stan Gross (Blues Doctors) at the recent workshop in Denver. Outstanding rendition of "Sunshine of Your Love". The guitar added a little more base but the sound was very Cream like and i would think you could pull it off easily with a guitar and drummer (if you can't use a stomp box like Adam).
Martin
960 posts
Feb 01, 2016
4:25 PM
There are keyboards with bass pedals or keybord bass. Add drums and you´re home.
That could be an interesting option, although it requires a higher level of musicianship from the keyes player than the ordinary organ grinder.
Killa_Hertz
403 posts
Feb 01, 2016
4:38 PM
Im out of my element here, but .... what if you did like a guitar track. I doubt alot of people would notice. They would just think it's coming from the bass. 8^)> Keyboard is a good idea, but we re not working with a keyboardist.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Goldbrick
1295 posts
Feb 01, 2016
4:50 PM
tracks blah-- why not just lipsynch if you wanna go in that direction

I hate tracks and drum machines

Live music is live players playing
robbert
393 posts
Feb 01, 2016
5:54 PM
A perceived limit, such as the lack of a chording instrument, can lead you to developing an original approach to interpreting music, whatever the genre.

I am not saying it's not challenging, but depending on the collaboration, its possible, and even likely, you'll come up with cool stuff.

Focus on groove, timing, and space.

You might, as you go along, prefer your sound without the need for a guitar, keyboard, or whatever.
waltertore
2907 posts
Feb 01, 2016
6:00 PM
Harpaholic: We are now living in Reno and have opened a pizzeria. I haven't had the time or interest to check out the music scene but if the urge hits me I can play at our shop as a 1 man band or use my drummer of 20 years who lives here and also a great bassist friend is here as well so we could do a trio. Stop by our shop "smiling with hope pizza" sometime when you are in the area. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller

Smiling With Hope Pizza-pizza with a social cause

my videos

Harpaholic
825 posts
Feb 01, 2016
7:13 PM
Walter, I leave tomorrow, will be back on the 19th. I will definitely stop by when I get home.

Sorry to hijack thread!

Last Edited by Harpaholic on Feb 01, 2016 7:15 PM
Martic
139 posts
Feb 01, 2016
8:38 PM
Have you ever listened to Moreland & Arbuckle? They guitar player uses a hybrid cigar box guitar with guitar and bass strings combined. That could be an option in a rock context.

If you wanna go more jazzy, may be an organ trio could be a good pick, just like those cool sax-organ-drums jazz trios.

If you got the right bassist, may be you could get rid of drums and/or guitar: Larry Graham invented slap because his band's drummer got kicked and he needed to fill the percussion somehow. A bassist friend of mine is a professional musician with an expertise on slap and chord melody (actually he wrote a method book of chord melody for bass). Trust me, he really fills the space: he adds chords when there's no guitar and he adds the badum-tss when we play without a drummer.

Anyway, if you wanna get the "power trio" feeling I think (and it's my humble opinion) you are going to need a four-piece band.

But, if you want to try anyway, you'll need people with lots of talent to play what you need... And a lot of discipline to play JUST what you need, so the songs don't get ruined.

Good luck man!
Chris L
98 posts
Feb 01, 2016
9:38 PM
Mike, the Rhythm Junks are worth some study, not so much to replicate their genre, but to see how they create a full sound! Their studio albums are certainly more layered, but the live sound in the clip above is still pretty solid!
They identify as Indie Roots, but I hear a lot of Jazz and funk influence. Steven De Bruyn 's great voice and his careful harp phrasing beautifully fills the middle and upper sound range. Gyselink is solid and a very restrained drummer. Hautekeit on the bass is absolutely crucial to the fullness of their sound, effectively filling bottom and lower middle range so that effectively there is no need for rhythm guitar. He is a fabulous bassist! If you are thinking Classic Power trios, Bruce approaches this in Cream; Noel Redding not so much, but then Jimi filled everything! Oh, and no! You are Not crazy at all! I am with robbert above. It just will take some focussed creative attention to the sound you are trying to create. Can't wait to see what you come up with! And if you multi-instrumentalists occasionally work in alternate instruments for additional interest, so much the better!
MindTheGap
1087 posts
Feb 02, 2016
4:36 AM
How about the Royal Blood approach? Mike Kerr's bass with effects (octave and all sorts of bits I've read) to create a rich bass + guitar sound from one instrument.

Or Ray Manzarek with his bass keyboard? I saw a band last year where the keyboard player was using one of those Nord keyboards where he could split it into different registers. Maybe they can all do that.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 02, 2016 4:51 AM
SuperBee
3334 posts
Feb 02, 2016
5:02 AM
Morphine: drum bass and baritone...
Gnarly
1634 posts
Feb 02, 2016
5:56 AM
Am I crazy? You must not be asking a man who calls himself Gnarly Heman . . .

Anyway, the right player can do miracles--here is a clip from a man named Colin Hutchinson, he plays with a band called Back Door. This song is Robert Johnson's 32 20 Blues, he is singing and playing solo bass guitar--live!


Here's another with the new sax player--good to see they are still doing this after many years.

HarpNinja
4202 posts
Feb 02, 2016
10:14 AM
Lots to consider!

The bassist and drummer and I are going to jam as a 3 piece and see how it goes. I appreciate all the bands mentioned. Great reference points!

I don't live in Duluth. I live south of the Cities. I thought I was moving to the Cities, but I am not...which sucks.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Harpaholic
826 posts
Feb 02, 2016
11:03 AM
Sorry Mike! I thought you mentioned Diluth in the past?
The Twin Cities is a great place to be for music as you know.

Last Edited by Harpaholic on Feb 02, 2016 11:05 AM
HarpNinja
4204 posts
Feb 02, 2016
11:28 AM
The TC's are great. There isn't a huge market for harp players anymore, even in blues. The market has shifted a lot more to blues show bands that play speciality shows and not a lot of club dates.

The blues bands are a lot more progressive and more rock and soul than blues. I have lots of opportunity to job or sit-in, but nothing beats being in a polished act.

Something I've learned is that my band of a few years ago, NiteRail, was way ahead of its time up here. We would have a lot more success in the current blues scene than ten years ago when everyone wanted retro West Coast swing bands.

The guitar player from that group plays in Austin, TX, now and hounds me all the time to move down there (no way my family would go). While I still dream of being "discovered" down here, I am quite content with the idea of having a bar band to play in.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
HarpNinja
4205 posts
Feb 02, 2016
11:29 AM
I think all the time about trying to release a harp driven classic rock CD. Similar to what Marko Balland did with his Hendrix album. Only harp players would ever listen to it, but it would be fun and maybe open up some teaching doors.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
hvyj
2929 posts
Feb 02, 2016
3:26 PM
Mike, look for a guitar player or keyboard player for a duo. The reality is that duos are easier to book than bands and the per man pay is better. The higher compensation is why so many good guitar players prefer solo or duo gigs over playing with a full band. The most reliable sources for able musicians are university jazz performance majors and black churches. Some of the gospel players won't play outside of the church and those church gigs pay very well. Also it can be challenging for most white musicians to make connections with the gospel guys. But jazz performance majors can usually play authentically in different idioms and many of them actively look for gigs. So, if there is a college or university nearby with a music program that's where you go shopping. Find out where those guys hang.

Last Edited by hvyj on Feb 02, 2016 3:33 PM
JInx
1160 posts
Feb 02, 2016
5:15 PM
You can do it but be prepared to rehearse, a lot. Good luck. Frankly, if you're researching your vision here, this might not be the path for you. But then again, I'm hoping an asteroid destroys the earth, soon.

edit: Let me delete that above nonsense I wrote, I'm off my meds again. Rock on ninja
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Last Edited by JInx on Feb 02, 2016 9:28 PM


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