Many custom harp builders out there and are backed up for a reason. Although costly I'm sure most warrant the expense. I just purchased a Manji from Blue Moon Harmonicas and though I rarely endorse any product, I gotta say this harp is great. Every hole plays easily with good tone, something I never got with out of the box harps. This thing is great. Excellent job Tom !!!
hmm..... so you have never ever never never ever not one time had an out of the box harmonica the played well or if it did it had poor tone?.... interesting.
so how much did you pay for this magical harmonica?
what was done to it that made it a gazillion times better than a measly stock harp... just curious.
Last Edited by 1847 on Oct 13, 2015 9:27 PM
Instruments from the well known harmonica customisers are generally dramatically better than their off the shelf counterparts.
The reason is simple: time. I believe that a factory employee costs Hohner about one Euro per minute. Subtract that from the price of a Hohner instrument and you can guess how much time they get in the factory. Other manufacturers would be similar.
Compare this with an established harmonica customiser, who is generally also a master craftsman. Let's say they spend half a day working on your instrument.
Which one will be better?
I've been playing Neil Graham custom diatonics for around 12 years, with regular servicing. They're expensive, and reflect the time Neil puts into their preparation. I can't do what I do without the edge his instruments provide. As per below
---------- Tony Eyers Australia www.HarmonicaAcademy.com everyone plays...
1847: A well-playing harp is a joy. Some out-of-the-box harps are really nice. Maybe one-in-twenty are REALLY nice. A harp customized by a pro is better.
What's done to a proper custom harp? Well, everything. Nothing is left to chance, every component is brought as close to perfection as can be. This means the harp is airtight, the tolerances are optimal, the reed adjustments are best and the tuning is perfect (to name a few things) - all relative to the needs of the customer.
Isn't a stock harp good enough? Often, sure they are. But everybody has different needs and preferences. To each their own. If you are looking for "better", it's available.
Does playing custom harps make you a better player? Does playing strictly stock-only harps make you a better player? It's the same answer to both questions because everybody's needs and preferences are different. It depends on the player. By and large, the type of harp you play doesn't make you a better musician.
But which harp gives you more pleasure? Playing harp should be FUN!
Pay attention, because I am about to reveal the hidden secrets of how to make a magical harmonica.
Not really, but I will tell you exactly what was done to bikerpvc’s harp because I am the guy who built it.
Let me preface my comments by clarifying that I struggle with how to label myself and the harps I build. I’m referring to the words “Custom” and “Customizer”. Clearly it is a case of semantics. I don’t refer to myself as a Customizer and I avoid calling the harps I build Custom Harps. I’ve taken to calling them Blue Moon Harps just to give them some sort of distinction and/or branding. Joe Spiers is a Customizer. Richard Sleigh is a Customizer. Harvey Berman is a Customizer. These guys do far more reedwork on the harmonicas they build than I do. I’m just good at the basics.
So here goes. This is what I did to bikerpvc’s harp and generally what I do every harp I build.
1. Install a custom comb. Hey – what can I say? I’m in the comb business. I admit to being very biased. However, objectively speaking, the evidence is overwhelming that installing a flat custom comb on your harp frequently will result in a dramatic improvement in tone and responsiveness. I qualify my statement by saying “frequently” out of a desire for journalistic integrity. It would be inaccurate to portray every single stock comb as being un-flat or the installation of a custom comb to be the be-all, end-all solution. But if you want to stack the deck heavily in your favor, a flat custom comb is a good place to start.
2. Flat sand the draw plate. This is so simple and it makes a huge difference. It takes about a minute or so. The marriage of a flat comb and flat reed plates result in a more airtight harp. Airtight = better tone and better responsiveness.
3. Adjust the gaps. This subject has been discussed ad infinitum on this forum. The gaps are set too high on most stock harps. A properly gapped harp will respond to light breath but won’t choke when you play it hard. While I’m at it, if a reed is off center I will center it. If a reed is curved like a C I will straighten it out. Nothing major. Simple stuff.
4. Tuning. Most stock harps are not in tune straight from the factory. Even if it was, by the time I have installed a different comb, flat sanded the draw plate and adjusted the gaps, the tuning has been altered. So I check the tuning and adjust as necessary. In the case of the Manji I built for bikerpvc, I tuned the harp to Modern Compromise Temperament (the current Marine Band tuning). I personally don’t care for the stock Manji tuning.
That’s it. Like I said, I don’t consider myself a customizer. I just build good solid airtight harps and I pay attention to detail. Usually, that’s enough for most players. It is better than Out-Of-The-Box but not as good as a Spiers or a Sleigh or a HarveyHarp.
Generally I don’t emboss the reed slots. That might be sacrilegious to some but I don’t feel the need. The harps play plenty good without embossing. I don’t consider myself a great overblow player but I can overblow every harp I build on the 4-5-6. It’s one of the little tests I put the harp through before I ship it. I figure if a guy with medium skills (like me) can overblow the harp then someone at a higher skill level will be able to and if the customer is someone who is just learning to overblow at least the harp won’t be what is holding him back. If what you want is a full blown custom overblow/overdraw harp – I’m not your man. Go see Joe or Richard or Harvey. They will give you what you want.
Where did I learn how to do all this stuff? A lot of it right here on MBH. YouTube is loaded with information. I hope nobody finds this information Earth shattering. In my opinion, it is stuff that anyone who is serious about playing the harp should know how to do.
What do the top customizers do that I don’t do? To tell you the truth, I’m not really sure. You’ll have to ask them, but don’t be surprised if you don’t get much information. Trade secrets are trade secrets.
Oh – and the cost for this Magic Harp? $95.00 (+ shipping)
---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Oct 14, 2015 9:33 AM
Tom, by the commonly recognized gold standard (i.e. from the words of Joe Filisko himself), what you describe is semi-custom harp.
http://ca.playhohner.com/service/hohner-service/hohner-affiliated-customizers/ What does the customizer do?
a) Semi Customizing
Semi Customizing is a sales offer to an unspecific circle of potential purchasers, usually involving physical modifications to the finished instrument. A typical example of semi customizing is the offer to exchange combs or covers on an undefined number of harmonicas at a defined serial level. Another example would be the offer of standardized alternate tunings in either an online base or a catalogue. Much semi customizing does not encompass the reed work delineated below and in such cases can also be performed by non-players.
b) Full Customizing
Full customizing involves accepting orders to modify harmonicas in order to improve performance in regard to the specific playing style of the customer, as well as fulfilling individual wishes by exchanging or modifying parts of the instrument.
Here the goal is to make the harmonica play better, sound louder, respond better and/or facilitate certain playing styles such as overbends. In addition to the operations performed by semi customizers, full customizing always involves extensive modifications to reeds and reed slots (embossing, offsetting, gapping, polishing, bevelling of reed edges, fine tuning et al). This highly skilled work can only be conducted by experienced technicians who are also expert players.
The HOHNER AFFILIATED CUSTOMIZER PROGRAM is aimed at bringing together the finest harmonica customizers in the world under the seal of the HOHNER AFFILIATED CUSTOMIZERS. This is an independently certified seal of quality which guarantees the highest possible standards of craftsmanship, based on the finest harmonicas in the world, made by HOHNER. It represents a historic step both for HOHNER and for the harmonica community as a whole.
There clearly are proponents and opponents of custom harps. A semi-custom harp can offer the best of both worlds.
Often, just taking care of the basics (the fundamental things) like making the harp airtight, properly gapped and in-tune, you eliminate a whole bunch of the problems you can face with stock harps.
@ 1847 OK there is no such thing as a magic harp. Now as the two gentlemen before have mentioned the odds of getting a great harp (that is in tune) OOTB is very slim. Arzajac said it's about a one in twenty. Well to find a harp that is actually in tune and plays well consistently from one end to the other. I'd say it's more like 100 to 1. Now say you have 12 harmonicas. Most likely not one of them is even close to being in tune. Not to mention if anything else is right. Oh and what Tom's last statement is true! I have never made a you tube video and I won't! Some people make You tube videos to lure in biz and that's cool if that's what your into. I look at it like this, if you want to know what I do then play the harp for 29 years and work on about 1000 diatonics and 100 chromatics and learn as you go. You'll get it! It just takes time. It's easy for someone to say oh that's bullshit! It's more difficult to prove it! Mr. 1847 I can prove it and I'm not the only one!!
Last Edited by chromaticblues on Oct 14, 2015 9:50 AM
I'm not into the idea of trade secrets. It's not sustainable.
Innovation is good for the consumer and therefore good for business. The customer has a better chance of buying if they know what they are getting.
There are plenty of examples of industries that thrive without trade secrets. Harmonica customization is mostly a service industry. I could change tho oil in my car myself or ask my wife to cut my hair. But I choose to pay others to do that work for me. It's not because of secrets but because it's easier or better if someone else does it.
World-class chefs can make a fortune preparing well-known dishes, often using very simple ingredients. Why are they successful? Because they have talent, experience, put in a lot of work, take pride in their work and make sure it's done properly. The same can be said about custom harmonicas.
My late grandfather used to say "Why go out to a restaurant, we got food at home!"
Indeed! He probably wouldn't play a custom harp either....
@arzacjac Very nice. I agree with the info age we're in makes it very difficult to have what could be called trade secrets. I also don't believe in making a videos showing things that I know that I didn't lean from you tube or the internet! That's just how I feel. Like I said if someone else enjoys making a video once a week so people will know your out there doing this. Yes I get that. You tube has become an opportunity machine! Either way there is plenty of stuff on the internet already. In my opinion it is all starter stuff. The stuff all serious harmonica players should already know, but don't! The equivalent of a guitar player tuning his guitar. How can any one play the guitar if he doesn't know how to tune it. He would have two choices Just say the hell with it or pay someone else to do it. Honestly I don't know how people can play harps that aren't at least gapped and tuned?
what i wrote was in no way a jab at any customizer it was in response to mr biker who said........... "Every hole plays easily with good tone, "something I never got with out of the box harps."
in my experience, i have had hundreds of out of the box harmonicas that played great and quite often very in tune. doesn't mr gussow use out of the box harmonica's? how is that possible? if 19 out of 20 are unplayable. of course a custom harmonica will play better than a stock. why wouldn't it if a qualified tech spends hours and hours working on it it had better.
just for the record, i came......." this close" to placing an order with mr joe spiers. i had his phone # in front of me unfortunately my phone and wallet were in the car, and i was upstairs sitting in front of a fan drinking an ice cold beer it was a hundred degrees outside. i made as far as the refrigerator for another beer.
my question was....... how much did it cost, thanks for the detailed answer mr halchek i have nothing but respect and admiration for all the people who strive for perfection on this little instrument. my hat is off to you. but i have to disagree that out of the box harmonicas are for the most part crap. yes i have had my share of crappy harps over the years mostly hohners back in the day but i find that i can easily use a new harp out of the box sometimes i get a bad one sometimes i need to touch up the tuning. if you are not getting a decent harmonica out of the box, send it back, suzuki has a one year warranty.
I hardly ever comment on the forum and I NEVER lick arse!!....but I would like to say that a few years ago I did a trade with Chromaticblues and received 2 of his !!custom harps!!...these harps are the best playing and most responsive harps I have ever owned!! So good i bought more!! and I have played for over 25 years!!! all of these harps are still going strong IMO well worth going.... custom!!!!!
Spilling trade secrets is a great idea when you don't have any. Shaves years off having to figure stuff out for yourself. Just read it, repost on MBH or your blog, and boom you're an admired, helpful expert. ---------- www.spiersharmonicas.com
I have a few custom harps...well, they're harps built for me by other people. I also work on my own harps, in much the same way that Tom described. Just lately I got a couple built by Joe Spiers. Mainly because I was curious about how much difference there would be. I can't stop playing the G harp. I've been carrying it everywhere I go for 2 months...I thought I was gonna work on overblows but actually I've just been blowing 1st position on the low end and enjoying the response. It's a joy to play and I really think it's helped me focus on getting great sound out of the 1st position scales. I've had a look at the build of course. theres a story there but it's not all in a language I can read very well yet. Anyway, these harps are a whole other level. I remember helping my buddy scape together funds to buy a Les Paul, 30 years ago...after he got it he was so pleased...he said the thing is...when you play it well, it sounds so good it makes you really want to make it sound that way every time...it inspires you to play better... Something like that going on with these harps I bought from Joe.
Same here SuperBee, my G Spiers Stage One is the best harp I own. I wish I knew how to do all the stuff I see when I examine this SP20-- I don't sell customized harps but of course I improve my own and I do modify other people's harmonicas--I repair them and improve them as best I can. Joe rocks!
I would expect the customisers to keep their trade secrets to themselves. However, even if they were explained, it would make little difference to the efforts of non customisers like myself.
Just watching master craftsman do their work, or having it explained doesn't mean you can do it yourself. There is a few thousand hours of practice involved, plus an innate understanding of the workings of metal that most of the top customisers have.
The Blue Moon explanation of good harmonica setup makes sense, and would almost certainly produce a better instrument. The major next step of full reed work by a customiser takes the instrument to another level. I leave that to the experts (Neil Graham in my case), and focus on playing the resulting instruments. ---------- Tony Eyers Australia www.HarmonicaAcademy.com everyone plays...
FWIW, I refer to what Tom does as "optimizing" What Joe does is customizing. But, yeah, just replacing the stock comb with a truly flat custom comb makes a big difference.
I guess you could say that I spilled a whole bunch of trade secrets when I "gave it all away" in my first long series of YT videos. I did so in part because at that point I wasn't gigging much and therefore wasn't worried about somebody stealing my gig(s). But I also did it out of a profound sense that the really important stuff can't be taught; it's about execution, touch, professional judgment, and a life journey. There's no shortcut to those things--or to mastery.
So I disagree with harpwrench, at least when we're talking about PLAYING harmonica. It's easy to spill trade secrets when you DO have them, since the whole idea of "trade secrets," from my perspective as a musician, is a fallacy. The "trade secrets" aren't where the music lives. When dispersed into cyberspace, they're merely a collection of technical tricks and ideas about how music might be made. To get from there to actual music takes a hell of a lot of work, a fair bit of talent, lots of playing time, an educated heart, a sense of taste--all the things that AREN'T trade secrets and can't therefore be given away and scooped up.
By the same token, I can understand why a full time musician, or harp customizer, might be leery of simply opening the treasure chest and saying "Take it all." There's always the risk that you'll give something away that does, in fact, diminish your competitive edge and lose you business. I've always been a part-timer. There's less at risk for me.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Oct 14, 2015 8:21 PM
While there certainly some advantage to holding onto trade secrets it does lead to people having to reinvent the wheel sometimes, and probably slows down overall progress a bit, but when you create something that's your right.
I guess there are different levels of knowledge too. I read a story about a guy who cracked the scratch off card lottery. His friend's had bought him a few cards as a gag gift and he noticed a pattern. He figured out a way that someone could make a pretty reliable return buying certain lottery scratch-offs because their was a flaw in the math they used to make 'random' numbers and you could therefore guess the numbers under the scratchers with fairly good reliability. He did some back of the envelope calculations and figured one person could make $500-$600 a day (it involved legwork in going out to stores and looking at their card displays) and decided it wasn't worth it for him. (Did I mention he was one of the top scientists in the field of analysing geology to find major oil deposits?) Because he was really good at math he was confident that his math skills would make him money in ways that the lottery wouldn't. He didn't see one piece of knowledge as a windfall, but as an accumulation of his skill.
(So anyway, he tried to tell the lottery that he had a 'system' to beat their scratch-off cards and they wouldn't return his calls, so finally he bought 20 cards and sorted them into winners and losers with something like 70% accuracy and sent them to the head of the lottery. He got a very frantic call from them once they got the package. By then he'd also come up with a way that one person could make even more, by hiring a bunch of people to go ticket shopping for him, but still decided against it. You know though, when you hear about that lady in Texas who has one million dollar prizes on scratch-off tickets three or four times? Turns out she is a mathematician.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that there is a difference between one of a kind incites- if you discover that rubbing a banana on reeds for some strange reason makes them last 100 times longer and you only figured it out because you were eating bananas one day and spit some into the harp and discovered it's magical properties and your whole business is based on your banana secret then yeah, maybe if that's your livelihood, keep it under your hat, but having done a little work on my own harps I think most of it is acquired, perhaps transmittable skills, not eureka moments. You have to have steady hands (I don't). Good eyes (my eyes are okay, but they ain't what they used to be). A good ear (I wouldn't say I have a bad ear but I'm sure I miss a lot compared to some people) and you've got to have patience to sit there and get good at it. I can get utterly absorbed in some activities, and maybe have enough concentration to get one or two eureka ideas out if I happen to have them- I still have my magnetically held harmonica cover- but I don't have the patience to sit there and tinker endlessly. (In particular, I get hung up on the subjective nature of a perfect reed- if there was a specific shape that I could look at and aim for I might be okay, but since gapping is subjective to taste it drives me crazy. I get in a loop and can't get unstuck.)
If I had a secret I'd always be worried someone else might figure it out. I'd rather have a skill. That's not to say that I think anyone in particular has a secret rather than a skill, just that maybe sometimes when you are really good at something you assume that if you accidentally let something slip someone else could duplicate what you do. Unless your secret is banana, if you've gotten to the point where your peers consider one of the best it's probably more skill than secrets.
edit- There is also something to be said about the exchange of whacky ideas that may in fact favor the incumbent. One of the less talked about things about pushing for a diverse workplace, for instance, is that when you bring together people with different backgrounds they approach problems in different ways. I've got a friend who worked in a metal shop right out of high school, before heading off to college. It wasn't a skill that was, on it's face, particularly useful for a guy who went on to major in English in college, but when the women's studies class he was taking let people do creative final projects his metal cage of feminist thought was the only piece of work that involved a blow torch. (He also, while in college worked in a recycling plant. They were having problems sorting out some material or another from the stream. From his time in the metal shop he got an idea for a way to sort it out (I think it involved it shining under a blacklight?)
Of course, in that case, he mentioned it to his boss, who took credit for the idea and got a $100k bonus which he didn't share, so there are times when sharing doesn't work, but then again, bananas. Most of the time when you've already got a good skill you are the one in the position to recognize how two ideas can flow together when people are sharing back and forth, so you get to be the one who gets the 100k bonus (hopefully in a less morally ambiguous way?) My friend's boss didn't have the knowledge of metals my friend did, but he at least was clever enough to spot a good idea and pass it along.
FWIW I'm not a huge secret hoarder and have freely shared hard-earned info several times during the course of MBH discussions.
So on one hand I'm on the side of sharing and have spent loads of time doing it. Not just on here but also privately, with techs who bother to show some respect (when you throw up a website declaring superiority, you're immediately disqualified). On the other hand I'm seeing supply grow faster than demand seems to be, and wonder sometimes if I've shared too much.
This thread could easily have spun out into the anti-custom harp rhetoric. There have been a few of those threads.
Instead, we are having a frank discussion about custom harps and are seeing folks expressing interest in getting custom harps - some for the first time. That's a positive change. And one that's beneficial to everyone.
It has occurred to me that I neglected to thank the OP for his kind words about the Manji he bought from me. Sorry about that Phil. I do appreciate you taking the time to testify. Thank you.
To me, when I look at life, there is Black, White and various Shades of Gray. On the subject of harmonicas, there are Out-of-the-Box, stock harmonicas; there are the top Customizers who build the Lamborghinis and Maseratis of the harmonica world; and there are whole lotta guys in between. I have no qualms about saying I am in the Gray Area – when it comes to customizing a harp.
Likewise, the same can be said about harmonica players. There are beginners; there are masters like Howard Levy or Jason Ricci or (insert your favorite professional); and there are the rest of us. I am happy to say that I am in the Gray Area here too – as are probably 99.9% of those who will read this.
I also believe that getting “The Most” (whatever The Most means to you) out making harmonica music is a result of the combination of skill and equipment. Guys like Adam Gussow and Mitch Kashmar play OOTB stock harps and make them sound great because they have major league skill – big time chops. They also play a style of music that lends itself to playing OOTB harps. Not to put words in Adam’s mouth but I have read (or perhaps heard on his videos) that he looks at overblows as passing notes so while it is important for him to have the overblows on his harps, he doesn’t have the same needs as Jason or Howard. Jason and Howard have mad skills but I seriously doubt that either of them play stock OOTB harps in their shows. The style of music they play, with the extensive use of overblows and overdraws, requires a harp that has been specifically set up for that purpose. Presumably, we have all had the experience of playing a “good harp” and a “bad harp”. One that responds to our commands and one that doesn’t. So we know the difference. It is my opinion that more responsive harps can help unlock doors and lead to developing skills that might have taken much longer to discover or perhaps might never have been uncovered at all. Does that mean you can give a Joe Spiers Stage 3 Custom Harmonica to a beginner and he will sound like Howard Levy? Of course not. What’s missing is the skill.
As a middle of the road harmonica player, I don’t have the skills that Adam or Mitch have, so I need a little help. In that regard we might think of a “customized harp” as a bit of a crutch. So be it. I have no problem with that. If it helps me get where I want to go – that’s what matters to me. Others may disagree and feel compelled to go Old School and play stock harps. Great. Have at it.
Moving on. So how do you match up the player and the harp? Money is a consideration. Custom harps cost a lot more than stock harps. Time is a consideration. You can have a stock harp today. Just stop by your favorite music store and buy one. Bingo. It’s there. Custom harps take longer to get – perhaps 3, 4, 5, 6 months. More Black, White and Gray. You decide.
And finally, on the subject of Trade Secrets. I can see that opinions differ on this subject. Perhaps some believe that there should be no secrets – that whoever unlocks a mystery should automatically share it with the world. The collective good, so to speak. Personally, I don’t agree with that. Trade Secrets are competitive edges that, more often than not, have been discovered, or perhaps invented, as a result of serious dues paying. The guys who are good at what they do got there because they have done it (whatever “it” is) 1000’s of times, have made countless mistakes and have learned countless lessons. To expect them to just give that information away for free is naïve in my opinion. That said, it is useful for your customers to have some knowledge about how things work. For example, it’s nice if a customer can at least do the basics – widen a gap if I set it too tight for him; clear a bit of debris out of a slot if a reed gets stuck. In a perfect world, we don’t really want a customer to have to go through the time and expense to send a harp back for repair if all that’s wrong with the harps is a piece of lint is stuck between the reed and slot. But that’s exactly what some customers do. They want their hand held. So you do it. Having information available about basic maintenance is a must. That’s no-brainer. And going much further down the line is fine. As a guy who caters to the Do-it-Yourselfers, I want my customers to know their way around a harp. In fact, I am quite confident that many of my customers are much better harp techs that I am. I believe that the more people who know how to make their harps play good the better. But, almost all of us are still operating in the Gray Area.
Harpwrench (Joe Spiers) has shown me so much stuff over the years and I'm eternally gratefull for his insight. Joe has never said to me "This is how you do it". What he has done instead is given me hints and tips on how to do stuff and gently nudged me in the right direction.
As a result of that I can make a harmonica play the way I like it too. I'm not a customiser by any means. I simply optimise my own harps. People like Joe have my utmost respect for the work they do and for the sharing they do in community.
Joe Spiers gapping series of videos alone are priceless and have become the benchmark for people learning to gap their own harps.
Without the input of people like Joe Spiers, Tom Halchak andAndrew Zajac, to name but a few. Most people wouldn't even know how to begin how to work on their own harmonicas. For that we should all be grateful and should support these guys with our business wherever possible.
A question to customizers (or customers who have ordered from overseas) regarding delivery costs and import charges.
How much would you usually charge for delivery of say, one customised harp to the UK and would import duty be levied on the item as a matter of course in the UK and what would be the likely charge? Thanks.
@Grey Owl I'm guessing about $15, but I usually do is get a persons address go to the post office while I'm mailing something and ask them. The way I get the exact amount.
For anything bought from abroad over £15.00 (it used to be £25.00 but with Ebay and the net it changed) you will be charged 20% customs and handling charges UK end unless that is all taken care of say stateside however if it is sent to you as a 'gift' you won't (sometimes) but even then somethings over £15.00 like CD or LPs don't get taxed...sometimes in fact I think it depend who is working that day they seem to suit themselves!
Sorry but I don't know about a custom harp but it can't be much different. ----------
"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"
Last Edited by marine1896 on Oct 15, 2015 10:50 AM
Tom: "there should be no secrets – that whoever unlocks a mystery should automatically share it with the world. The collective good, so to speak"
That's a pretty extreme take on the concept. My take is a lot more grounded in the practical.
If the stability of your business model rests on a few trade secrets, you are vulnerable.
What protection do you have? Trademark, Copyright and patents. The two former are easily obtained by customisers but don't offer a lot of protection. Patents are not accessible.
Not to digress too much, but the intent of patents was to protect the "little guy" - the person you describe as putting in a lot of time and effort to come up with an original idea. Patents should allow that person to market the idea without the risk of someone (ostensibly, a bigger corporation) rolling out the idea cheaper/faster/better and ripping him off.
Unfortunately, it's extremely costly and time-consuming to get a patent. And the big companies already own patents that are so vague, they will say you are infriging on their patents. the "little guy" has to walk a patent minefeild. Instead of offering protection, they favor the big businesses and stifle innovation.
"To expect them to just give that information away for free is naïve in my opinion"
The exact thing was said in the software industry about a decade ago. Free software was disrupting proprietary software.
Free software builds innovation on top of innovation. Fast forward to today, free software is a multi-billion dollar industry and it's the dominant ideology. Most of the internet runs on free software. Most devices like cell phones and tablets run on it. As a service industry, the profit comes from creating innovation. The value is not in owning the software but in making software that does stuff people will pay for.
What's the best model for harmonica customisers? I dunno, but I don't want to risk my entire business on some things I keep secret.
I know some customisers polish their reeds only to obfuscate what they have done. That's not my style.
Grey Owl: I've shipped harps to UK regular parcel from Canada and no fees were charged. Probably luck. Fees are charged when I use a courrier like Aramex. That being said, I don't encourage shipping harps without tracking or insurance.
Andrew - the entire point of my last post was Black, White and various Shades of Gray. Please do not take my words out of context and twist them to mean something other than what was intended. By leaving out the words, "Perhaps some may believe", you distort my statements and paint my position as extremist. If you are going to quote me, use the entire quote. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Tom, the truth is, the internet ate my first response and I had to type it back in a hurry. Indeed I should have included "the perhaps some believe..." I apologize.
That being said, I was responding to you and what you wrote. You did elaborate on that point and I responded. The point of my post was to offer and elaborate a counter-argument, not to paint you as an extremist. You are a hardworking and contientious buisinessman. Everyone knows that.
Andrew, I couldn't agree with you more on the patent issue. I've had a couple ideas that were more eureka (both relating to harp and to other things) where an inexpensive patent might have given me the leverage to seek a partner who had the skills to do some of the fine engineering, but the price put that right out of consideration. I understand that actually having an expert look through all old patents to make sure an idea hasn't already been patented is time consuming, and that you don't want to have it be free because that could flood the system with all sorts of silly patents, but it seems there could be some middle ground. I know the idea has been floated that when a patent is submitted it could be placed on the web for crowd sourced review, which, considering the success of crowdsourcing projects like Wikipedia might actually work well, particularly since it would be in the interest of competitors to challenge ideas too. Perhaps they should also have Junior Patents, patents for ideas that are targeted to a very specific market that cost less to file. That would allow the small market guys to get patents too. The limitation would be that if the product made more than X amount they would have to either upgrade it to a full patent or surrender the patent. (One of my weirder hobbies is considering different ways to fix the patent and copyright systems!)
Harpwrench, for the record, I wasn't trying to pick on you. I just got the feeling that perhaps you were undervaluing how much of your skill is skill vs. knowledge.
And there certainly are pieces of knowledge that should probably be locked away. In practice, someone could probably reverse engineer the CNC codes for different comb production, but I wouldn't recommend anyone of the comb guys who rely on comb sales to just give the codes away unless they have a business model in place that lets them make money some different way. (There are CNC codes available online for harp combs. I can't remember the name of the site, but I know I've seen them. (And I know CNC codes are just part of the process. Tom, I remember you had a couple great reports, I don't remember if they were part of your videos or just a post, about how different materials could bend or warp depending on the CNC process used. That, again, is the sort of thing that you should keep to yourself (or only share at a premium or at least a pinky swear not to use it in a competing product).
Of course, someone could come up with a business model where sharing that sort of information was part of the package. CAD software drives me nuts. I've got some modifications I'd like to try on combs, and it certainly would be easier to modify someone else's beginnings rather than code it from the ground up. If someone had a site where they gave you the code options and had software that let you tweak it just a little bit this way or that way and then order it, that might (or might not) work as a model.
For the record, I haven't shared all my crazy secret ideas for harmonicas with the world. Sometimes it's because it's an engineering puzzle that I really am having fun working on in my head. Sometimes it's because it's a stupid easy idea and I'd like to either do it myself or at least trade it with someone for some harmonicas. Sometimes it's because it's crazy- I feel I have to spread my crazy ideas out a bit so you guys don't have me hauled off to a looney bin!- and sometimes it's some combination- I've got one idea I've been sitting on, for instance, that would require whoever did it to have a fairly expensive machine they aren't likely to have in a normal machine shop. Another one is something that is a variation on a secret that I've promised not to share. It gets complicated!
I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember a conversation with one of the guys from Hetrick and patents on, perhaps it was corian covers? I vaguely recall them saying they'd tried to patent it (and had or hadn't but it had been expensive?) I'd think they'd be kind of brittle, but they would probably look great.
I remember Buddha talking about cryo treating his reeds at least for a while, when he'd had access to a machine to do it. I think maybe Harrison played around with that too. Personally, the coolest looking harp I've ever seen was that Lightning Bug harmonica that was all lit up. Looked like it probably wasn't cost effective though. (Maybe it could be made cheaper, or maybe it would be more practical for a chromatic player who would use the same harp on more songs).
I remember Hetrick making some prototype covers out of Corian or some other such material, but I think by then they were already on the verge of closing down. As for cryogenic freezing, the first custom harp I ever bought was from a guy named Earl the Pearl who lived just 15-20 minutes away from me. He is no longer in business but he used to get all his reed plates frozen. Ironically I had used the same company to freeze some golf clubs for me. It is supposed to re-align the crystalline structure of the metal at the molecular level. The company itself is very successful -catering to the airline industry and others - but it is hard to say whether or not it made a difference with reed plates. I dunno.
Ideas are cheap. Everyone has ideas and some of them may be great. But in the final analysis it is all about execution. You have to find a way to get the product made and put it out there or else it will die on the vine. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Thanks for the info re tax on imports. I found out a bit more today from a music store owner. I'm still uncertain of the exact detail and how or who would bill me for the tax element. Does the vendor declare the value of the custom harp to the courier and that info is then passed on to UK customs in the accompanying paperwork?
What he did say was that the UK customs & excise charge 18% import duty, then add 20% Value added Tax on the total.
Apparently the item won't be delivered until tax is paid. He said this is always the case. If the item is a 'gift' then this does not apply.
Don't know if this is 100% correct, but he seemed quite sure.
On your parcel will be a customs declaration sticker and the value of the goods is written on that by the vendor or the vendor will tell whomever and they write it on it and that determines your UK customs and handling/import charge fees so add on 20% for private buyer like your self. I have been buying LPs,CDs,amps, mics, jeans, shoes, jackets, teasmaid, cuddly toy etc. from the states since the 80's. But like I said already it all depends on the day with the customs if they inspect it or not. I think maybe your friend is talking about the charges for him as a business not as a private buyer like you. ----------
"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"
Last Edited by marine1896 on Oct 16, 2015 10:54 AM
'Apparently the item won't be delivered until tax is paid'
Just one thing about the above the post office will bring the item out to your door but will tell you how much you have to pay first for your customs charge BUT the post office will also add on an £8.00 handling fee from them so just another heads up on that. Best is either get the country of origin to sort out the customs/import charges or if they declare it as a gift (which I think is classed as defrauding the post) or take your chances, but in my experience you are more likely to incur charges for anything that is electrical.
Back on topic .... About custom harps if you got your chops and shit together you should be able to get out of a OOTB harp what you want with a little altering or not sometimes, a custom harp should be a sweeter ride for a trad blues player... but for tons of overdblows, overdraws and those must have missing notes etc. then yeah custom it baby!
But...there's also nothing like a custom shit hot flat comb...Blue Moon Harmonica combs! ----------
"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"
marine1896 - I'm looking for someone to manage an advertising campaign. With slogans like that, you would appear to be an ideal candidate. Are you available for hire? LOL Thanks for the love. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Trying to compare and place the value of a good custom harp to somebody that hasnt played one is nearly impossible. Get one and all your questions will be answered. Thank you Joe Spiers for all of your support !!!
