On Sunday, 8/16/2015 I realized a dream which most of us harp fanatics can relate to. I noticed that my smart phone had an alert that an ebay saved search, "Premier Twin 8 amp" had yielded a new listing. Expecting it to be a late sixties square front model which would go for way more than I could afford, I was shocked to find that it was a "Widows Peak", which looked to be in decent shape with a buy it now price of $700.00 + $49.00 shipping. I hit the watch button, thinking I would check it out further upon arriving home. When I returned to my job I thought "YOU IDIOT, it will be gone by then at that price". So, I ran back out to my car, grabbed my phone and hit the "Buy" button, knowing that my credit card had just about that amount of credit left on it. Since then, I've looked at the photos and description over and over again, and it seems that my rash decision may have been a good one. It is in transit from Carlsbad Ca. to my Pa. home, and the anticipation is killing me. Not to mention my wife killing me when I finally figure out how to tell her. Since most of us dream of someday owning one of these, I thought I'd share the experience. I'm sure the forum members can share many good bits of advice and opinion about the amp. Here is a link to the photobucket pictures copied from the ebay listing. Let me know if you are able to access the pics with this, and I'll try to figure out a better way to show them if possible. Also, let me know what you think of the amp and price. We'll check it out together through this thread when it arrives.
It's a great amp. Very loud and ballsy for an amp that size. I've got one of those in pristine condition--studio mint, I'd say--and one slightly older model, 1962, with a metal front instead of brown/purple fabric.
I prefer the older amp; that's partly because it's a little smoother in a duo setting where I don't need to cut as much. I believe that I bought it and another newer amp (newer and not as good as the one you just bought) in NYC at Chelsea guitars: $500 for the pair back in 1993. I bring it on every tour:
But the amp you have--my version of it--is a bit louder, and the sound it pretty damned good, at least with the dynamic mic I'm using. (It would sound different, but also pretty damned good, with an Astatic or Green Bullet.) You got a pretty good price.
My only recommendation: think about replacing the 6L6GC, whatever it comes with, with a NOS (new old stock) GE. That made a noticeable difference. Just loud, full, ballsy, smooth.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Aug 18, 2015 7:38 PM
Oops! in my excitement over the amp and sharing the experience with you, i said it came from Carlsbad Ca. It was actually Culver City Ca. I cut and pasted the link into my browser, and it takes you right to the pictures. Look them over (especially the amp experts), and let me know anything you notice, good or bad. the ebay listing description said it works well, with good swampy tremolo,and really growls at higher volume. The tubes are: 1 6L6GC (RCA Grommes vintage, 2 12ax7 (Ruby, newer), 1 6X4 (Silvertone, vintage). the speakers are Quam 401 270016 (supposedly original)
Speakers are probably original. I would pull that capacitor disaster at the filter can and put in a proper new can. Looks like the tone pot shaft may be bent. Trim off excess wire on bypass cap. (Blue/ black). What is the bare wire running under the brown .o47 coupling cap lead? Could short out something? Fair cosmetics. Might want to upgrade those Ruby's. Nice amp!
Gota be worth a bunch with the Dirty Elvis sticker...(:>)
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Aug 18, 2015 8:40 PM
Sorry to stray from the subject, but is that Blues Doctors tune an original? It sounds vaguely familiar -- which is quite often the case when you like something ...
The 6L6 version is the better amp. I told the seller they where Quam speakers and possibly original. He listed them as Rola's. The same speakers are stock in my Kay 505 Twin 8
The speakers are dated 1960 which are era correct for that amp, but its the first time I've see Quams in a Twin 8. Premier was known for using what they had on hand. Most Widow Peaks I have seen including mine have a 518 speaker code. Research does not show that code belonging to a known manufacturer?
If the transformers and pots are dated 1960, then you know there original. I own a 59 Widows Peak, difference is stock speakers, all blonde tolex, with brass grill cloth.
Barley is right about the filter caps. Get that fixed ASAP. They should be mounted to the chassis with silicone not with wire.
Maybe we should have a topic "Show your Premier/Multivox" ?
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Aug 19, 2015 11:00 PM
Great advice and info. from the experienced folks here. This points out a very important fact for all newbies like me who have purchased their first vintage amp. Before you even plug it in, take it to an experienced tube amp technician and have it checked out. A: To make sure you're not going to get shocked to death, and B: to make sure you're not going to have it, and maybe your house, burned up. Barley pointed out some things which had caught even my inexperienced eye in the photos. The filter can (I'm assuming that's the black and white one on the left) and the associated parts looked sloppy as if they had been installed in a haphazard way. The bare ended black wire looked unusual also. I don't know if there would ever be a need to bridge from one component to another with wire, but I'm sure you wouldn't just wrap the bare end of a wire around the leg of something. The excess wire on the bypass cap I did not notice. Once again pointing out the importance of having an experienced technician check things out. Glad to know that Harpaholic was the person who looked at the listing and advised the seller, and also has some great input. Although I intend to marry this amp and pledge my everlasting love to it, if things ever forced me to give her up, she will be offered to this community first. Also, thanks to Adam who is the Master Po to my Qai Chang to use a Kung Fu t.v. series reference. After squaring away the amp, my next harp dream is to see him play live, meet him and take some lessons from him. Since it will take a few weeks to get up the money to pay my local tech. for his services, please feel free to offer any information and advice which I can share with him. He has lots of experience with old tube amps, but may not have worked on this particular model. Wondering what model of filter can would be best, which 12ax7 tubes are best, and any other suggestions you have. All technical considerations aside, we now come to the most important decision. That being what to do about the dirty Elvis sticker on the right side. I'm torn between two schools of thought. One says that it is a quirky part of the amp's character and mysterious history, and should remain. The other says that if that thing doesn't shed real tears on the anniversary of his death each year it should be carefully removed. Okay my forum friends, will it be "Long Live the King!" or "Elvis has just left the building".
Last Edited by Garlic Breath on Aug 19, 2015 1:44 PM
Leave Elvis! It looks like the cap can was bypassed with new filter caps, the wiring needs to be cleaned up and like I said silicone to the chassis. Also the cord wiring should be cleaned up and secured with a strain relief.
Your tech can check all the resistors and caps, service pots, tube socket, but there probably isn't much as far as repairs. Less than $100
I've been collecting Premiers for over twelve years now, I have owned close to forty, and still own several. You may have seen that rare Bass Club 160 on Ebay a couple weeks ago, I am now the proud owner of that beauty.
If the amp tech is good, it doesn't matter what amp they work on, and they don't need a schematic, even though I think one is available for that amp?
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Aug 19, 2015 1:54 PM
Great amp! One of the finest amps ever built. ---------- I'm out of the Biz for a while till I get over my burnout. You can try HarveyHarp or arzajac, or just look the page nacoran put together under Forum Search. .
The filter (cap) can is the silver cylindrical item next to the 6X4 rectifier. This original can was disconnected and the other caps subed in. This is a lower cost alternative when doing a cap job on an amp. Not well executed IMO. Those caps are your power supply filters. A problem there may result in a fried PT or possible electric shock or fire. I much prefer to replace aged cap cans with a suitable new production can. Your tech will know what is best.
"This points out a very important fact for all newbies like me who have purchased their first vintage amp. Before you even plug it in, take it to an experienced tube amp technician and have it checked out. A: To make sure you're not going to get shocked to death, and B: to make sure you're not going to have it, and maybe your house, burned up."
This is excellent advice! There are very few, if any, amps sold on Ebay that do not need work! Good luck with Elvis...BN
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Aug 19, 2015 4:21 PM
Oh, Qai Chang. Try not to avenge Master Po or you will be hunted for a whole hour and that includes commercials on TV at prime time for many years. ---------- I'm out of the Biz for a while till I get over my burnout. You can try HarveyHarp or arzajac, or just look the page nacoran put together under Forum Search. .
The amp arrived well packaged and totally intact today. Cosmetically, it looks even better than in the pictures. No major dings or tears, just the nice even wear you would expect in an amp manufactured in 1960 and treated well. As stated earlier, for safety's sake, it will go to my amp tech. early next week to be checked for safety and evaluated as to tweaks and improvements. I was wondering if anyone knows which brands of tubes were original, and if these give the best tone, or if anyone has ever figured out a better set specifically for harp tone. Having looked at matched sets of 12AX7, I see that the vintage Amperex and Mullards can go for really big $$. Befor swapping out any tubes, I'll play through it and see if it makes me happy enough to stick with the current lineup. As is often misquoted "The proof of the pudding is in the eating". In this case the proof of the tubes is in the playing. I'll let you know how it sounds when I get it back. I heard a commercial on local radio yesterday that Phil Wiggins and the Chesapeake Sheikhs are playing at a local outdoor amphitheater next Friday. I immediately bought tickets for the best available seats. It's a historic, small, intimate venue with great acoustics, and no bad seats. I will start a separate thread to find out which of his tunes folks like best.
Last Edited by Garlic Breath on Aug 21, 2015 8:13 PM
The most important thing is if you run the stock tubes make sure you have them tested. If thats not possible, buy only tested tubes from a reliable seller. I ended up with hundreds of tubes included In the amps I've bought. About 70% tested strong or NOS, but that Other 30% tested poorly, and could have damaged my amps if I Had contiued to use them
Multivox used Multivox branded tubes made mainly by Mullard. Any good 6L6 and 12AX7 will sound good, just a little different. I run Jan Philips 6L6 (my favorite), and a Jan GE 5751, but also really Like Winged C and Tungsol RI. The rectifier doesn't matter, any good 6x4 will work.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Aug 21, 2015 9:45 PM
Would anyone have a link to the proper schematic for this amp? I have an experienced tech. looking at now, and he will check out the issues mentioned. Even if he doesn't need it, I would still like to have it to save with the amp. Thanks, Jim
Mine needed 2 4 ohm speakers just to get started. It was worth every penny.
---------- I'm out of the Biz for a while till I get over my burnout. You can try HarveyHarp or arzajac, or just look the page nacoran put together under Forum Search. .
Last Edited by MP on Sep 09, 2015 7:44 PM
Got my Twin 8 back from the amp tech this week, and have just started to play through it. For now, I had him add a strain relief to the power cord, silicone the filter caps to the chassis, and insulate the leads to prevent them from touching anything. When I can afford a new filter can and replacement of an old paper wrapped cap he noticed, I'll take it back to get everything done as it should be. Every aspect of the amp from its beautiful looks and age marks to the beautiful sound make it hard to stop looking at it and playing through it. I'm trying to balance getting home maintenance jobs done with playing and experimenting with it. The tone is beautiful with a nice edge of mild distortion at the half way volume setting. I haven't yet found a way to go much above this volume without feedback becoming an issue, although I noticed that adjusting the tone control did allow for some additional volume. Here's where I need advice on what others have found that allowed them to have a greater range of distortion intensity and venture into the upper half of the volume adjustment. First off do you think swapping a 5751 preamp tube for the 12AX7 would help, or would a box such as the squeal killer be a better way? Obviously, a good vintage tube would be less than half the cost of the SK, but it comes down to what would give the best amount of versatility as to distortion and volume. Also, would a Lone Wolf Harp Break help towards this quest to have more control over clean / dirty at various volumes? If you could share your insights into the relationship between tube, tone adjustment, volume, and how to find the sweet spot as well as ways to gain more control over the amount of distortion at various volumes and to venture into the upper half of volume adjustment while avoiding feedback, I would be eternally grateful. Sure would save me hours of trial and error (mostly error). Thanks, Jim
What Mic are you using? Are all the inputs the same? A VC might help on a hot mic. You could also try a 5751 instead of a 12ax7. I would try that. No need for SK or pedals.
528hemi
Last Edited by 528hemi on Sep 19, 2015 12:04 PM
Electro-Voice 638 dynamic high Z. Haven't tried the guitar inputs. Don't know if that would be advisable.
Last Edited by Garlic Breath on Sep 19, 2015 1:39 PM
You will not hurt anything plugging into any jack on that amp. Guitars are high impedance, so is your mic. Forget the pedals. Not needed on small amps. A 5751 will warm it up a little but you will still have feedback problems because you have not developed the proper skills. Two things, first, learn to get a good cup on that mic, second, do not stand in front of the amp. Using a mic properly takes time and practice. It is very frustrating at first. We all went through this. Your not looking for distortion, you are looking for tone! No doubt someone will say that you need good acoustic tone before you will get good amplified tone. This it TRUE! You must learn to use your whole body to get good tone. OK, open your throat, think of your chest as a resonate chamber. Get the hands air tight on that mic and go practice. Good luck...BN
Was just thinking about something my kung fu teacher said to me when I lamented that I'll never be as good as some Shaolin monk we watched giving an amazing demonstration. He said "Its not about being as good as he is, its about being as good as YOU can be at the moment, and always working to make it better". If that currently sucks, then I would ask you to remember the words of another great philosopher, Jerome Horowitz (Curly Howard of the Three Stooges) who said "If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do succeed".
Jan Philips have always been my favorite. Jan Sylvania, a really close second. I like there warmth and balance. NOS Slyvania are my third choice, but pretty much any NOS american tube will be good. If your not aware, JAN are military spec tubes that were made to be more durable for military use. They are still a lot cheaper than GE's or RCA's of the same era. If you buy from a reputable seller, they are fully tested and guaranteed.
On the other hand, modern tubes are good too, JJ, Sovtek, Tungsol, EH, etc: What I found is modern tubes can sound good and bad depending on the amp. I haven't had an amp that didn't sound good with NOS JAN Philips or Sylvania's.
Both the Tube Store and Tube Depot have Tube reviews, both good sources. Also recommend KCA tubes.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Oct 14, 2015 9:08 PM
Update: Replaced the Ruby 12AX7 on the microphone circuit with a N.O.S. RCA long black plate 12AX7. That got rid of the slight microphonic screechyness of the Ruby tube, and sounds great. I recently purchased two N.O.S Bendix 5992 Red Bank output tubes, and would like to try one to get some earlier breakup. The schematics I've seen show one hand drawn version with a 6L6GC, and one moire professionally drawn one labeled "Early 1959 - 1960" showing a 6V6. My amp tech said that mine was made for a 6V6, and I'm not sure if he bases that on the plate current being correct for the 6V6, or if he looked at the same schematics and saw details matching mine which would indicate that. Does anyone have detailed knowledge about the ones made in 1960, which would help me figure out which would be the original setup?
Never known of a Twin eight from mid 50's to mid 60's that had a 6V6 from the factory. I have owned 7 or 8 from 1957 to 1965. Not sure if you can safely run one or not.
My Kay 505 Twin 8 is fsctory 2-6V6 but I can safely run 2-6L6's and its actually Much louder with pretty much the same great tone.
