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Pistolcat
816 posts
Aug 03, 2015
3:34 PM
What would The Iceman Do?

I asked myself this a couple of months back. It was febuary actually and Valentine's Day was coming up. I like Icemans ideas about playing soft and sparsely with full control over tone and intonation and thought that I give some moody Jazz standard a try. I got this Backing track from http://www.jazzbacks.com/ and started to shed. I got so frustrated over my poor bending intonation AND bending TONE that I had to give up my efforts to post then.

I have kept it for shedding since and I believe it is now passable... A great way to really practise the low hole bends. I play it in third position on a Seydel session steel in Bb. The song modulates to its relative major which lands you in (kindof) twelfth position at times.

Comments welcome.

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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube

Last Edited by Pistolcat on Aug 03, 2015 3:35 PM
bluemoose
1098 posts
Aug 03, 2015
7:27 PM
nicely done Pistolkatt. Will be giving this a go as well.

Here is your reward:




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BronzeWailer
1753 posts
Aug 03, 2015
9:34 PM
Nice Work Pistolcat. I liked your improv.
BronzeWailer's YouTube
Pistolcat
817 posts
Aug 04, 2015
12:32 AM
Thank you, bluemoose! I sure liked my reward! Chet Baker's vocal version is what I listened to most along with Miles Davies' "Cooking.." version.

Thanks BW, I liked the improv, too, when I posted. Listening back now and I find it maybe too noodely and not enough Valentine. Ah, well...
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
BronzeWailer
1754 posts
Aug 04, 2015
4:20 AM
I have been listening to Chet Baker's version incessantly as part of vocal training. Damn hard to sing anything like that. His is my favourite. I tell myself it's a journey not a destination...

BronzeWailer's YouTube
The Iceman
2602 posts
Aug 04, 2015
8:17 AM
Pistolcat...a potential student?

You are already 25% there, what with you listening to Chet and Miles for ideas.

First of all, your performance...

I understand you are finding your legs, but you need to start playing each note with "no doubt". Many of your sustained notes (whether "given" or "created through technique") collapse inward.

When you play a sustained note, it should be solid like a beam of steel - if anything, slightly expanding outward over time until cut off.

I wouldn't mix in a "wah" (as you did later in the tune). No need to sound harmonicky if you are going for fluid linear jazz styling.

I hear a few OB's. Try playing it in 4th position. You can get by with only 4 hole exhale OB and one important 5 hole exhale OB.

Modulation puts you in 1st position.

I played this tune in the mid - 90's in Trossingen for the World Harmonica Championships, using my own backing track (piano sound created on Band in a Box, using a lot of split chord data inputs to give hip voicings). This was my second competition.

I placed 2nd that year. The winner was Carlos Del Junco, who spent a lot of time on his performance piece.

I didn't mind, as I never compete to win and don't really practice a whole lot beforehand, preferring to get up and play at whatever level I find myself at the time.

Anyways, it is a great song and has wonderful effect on an audience.

My go to version is the following...pay attention to the trumpet solo mid way through...one of the most beautiful I've heard on this song.



Keep up the good work.
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The Iceman

Last Edited by The Iceman on Aug 04, 2015 8:17 AM
Pistolcat
818 posts
Aug 04, 2015
1:04 PM
Thank you for listening Iceman! I hadn't heard that version of the song. It is tremendous! Especially the trumpet.

I agree with the Wah... It just slipped out. Though, I must say that using your hands (subtly)to shape (subtly) your attack AND dismount of a tone isn't to be forgotten. Even if you're a Jazzcat.. That's not even two cents worth but it's MHO.

I rather like my attack and tone here. I wanted for it to be fragile almost veneer, like Chet's singing. No steel beams. I thought it fitted the mood of the backing track quite well. At least at some places the collapsing part is intentional. Like the famous "...staaaay". Trying to mimic Chet's vocals from "...Sings". It's hits and misses I suppose. My favourite notes of my own video (Yes I'm that satisfied with it ;)) is the closing note of the first chorus "...day" and the first of the second chorus. At 2.05 or somwhere there abouts...

I looked at fourth position but rejected it... I can't remember why now. I think it's hard with the three hole whole step bend as root note I find the four and five hole OB messy as well. In third no OB's are needed. The ones I play is in the improv bit when I moved up an octave... I rather like my transition (Self congratulating again!!) up to the top octave where the song modulates back to minor at 3.20:ish, travelling via 6B, 6D, 6OB, 7B, 7OD, 8D (I think). That is: arriving at the root via the major seven. It felt and sounded well to me.

I would very much like to have heard your Trossingen version. If anyone has a recording, Please share!

And no one get me started on the lyrics because that's another marathon post!..
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
The Iceman
2606 posts
Aug 04, 2015
2:13 PM
What you may consider as fragile veneer comes across as insecure, at least to my ears.

There is a way to play with "no doubt" and still be delicate.

You are on a great path.
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The Iceman
Pistolcat
819 posts
Aug 04, 2015
2:27 PM
Thank you again! What the listener perceive is what's there! If I want to convey fragility and come across as insecure the fault is with me. A piece of music should not need a written commentary to explain and persuade the listener (nor should any other art form).

I'll keep trying.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
Martin
848 posts
Aug 04, 2015
3:03 PM
First of all, Katten, it´s nice to hear you outside of the blues context.
To me there´s a certain hesitance on a few occasions that is not working musically -- and I say that in full understanding, I believe, of your aestethic choice of "fragility" as the dominating emotion here. (There are those who´d think that this is a tune that you could belt out in the manner of talent show participants (s/he who screams the loudest wins!), and I even recall Harry Connick giving a sort of lecture to some such girl who was completely wrong about the entire song´s message.)

But I´ll have to go with Iceman on some of his points.
For instance, the part where the lyrics goes "Your looks are laughable ..." and a few bars onwards, there are some intonation difficulties there that is not creating the sense that you are "taken care of" by the interpreter. And this is rather early in the performance and thus strategically worse than when you´ve establised some sort of "rapport" (hate the word) with the listener.
Also, on "Is your figure less than Greek" I feel I´m disconnected from the melody: your "figure", if I may say so, is a here a bit weak ...

But then there are several parts where you nail them low bends perfectly ("But -DON`T- change a hair ...") and I´m -- once again -- impressed by your improvement on the instrument.
I used to do this tune quite a bit, always, like you, in 12th, and I´d never choose Larry´s way of doing it in 4th -- even if I happened on a perfectly set up harmonica.
Very impressed by that soft warm sound you´ve got. What´s the equipment?
My compliments.
Pistolcat
820 posts
Aug 04, 2015
3:39 PM
Thanks for listening Martin! In the part with the greek figure I got a little disconnected from the tempo yes. The more recordings I made the worse it got. It was something about those arpeggios that didn't add up to my addled brain... On the intonation parts... Did you mean the three hole bends or the two hole bends? The two hole bends sometimes got a bit sharp when I shedded this, without me noticing it until I checked with tuner. Three hole bends can just go bad to me. Mislearned from the start I guess...

I use a Seydel Session steel in Bb. I have a very nice custom marine band in Bb but it's too darned tight and responsive. The Session steel is set with higher gaps and unembossed making it "breathier" I guess.

I use a Rode NT1-A cardioid compressor mic. http://www.thomann.de/se/rode_nt1a_complete_vocal_recording.htm

connected to a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4.

Recorded with ableton 9 lite, some reverb and delay and "gentle squeeze" compression.

Edit: and I'm playing really, really soft. Softer than you may think. Inaudible from the next room.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube

Last Edited by Pistolcat on Aug 06, 2015 6:36 AM
Martin
850 posts
Aug 06, 2015
10:08 AM
No, it´s those 3D bends you´re chasing (ain´t it always) -- you can also here it on "favourite work of ART", where it it´s a bit uncertain on that last note.

The breathiness is great, in my view something to strive for -- listen for instance to JJ Milteau´s live duo take of "What a wonderful world". I´m very partial to that quasi-erotic closeness you establish with the breath sounds. (So was indubitably Ben Webster and Stan Getz and an array of other horn players, and there are worse paragons to have in the world of music.)

Thanks for the tech info -- I´ll have to run that by someone with a little more understanding than I have. (I´m sometimes in a studio with a guy who knows roughly as little as I do of these things, and he´s been ttrying to convince me that the criminally crappy sound he´s getting of me playing acoustically is somehow "right" ... No way. I´ll show him your video a an instance where it sounds as it should.)


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