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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Russ Green
Russ Green
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kudzurunner
5541 posts
Jun 18, 2015
11:24 AM
I just came across a clip of Lurrie Bell playing this year's Chicago Blues Festival, and I didn't immediately recognize the harp player, by looks or sound. I went looking and it wasn't hard to figure out who he was: Russ Green.

Green has a YouTube channel, and only one subscriber. I'm going to make that two. In the following clip, he's interesting for a couple of reasons. One of them is that he's got Sugar Blue as an extremely audible influence. I daresay I've never heard another player, ever, who is placing himself so squarely in SB's stylistic bag. Listen to the long solo (four choruses, if I remember) that starts around the 3:18 point. As it plays out through all four choruses, ask yourself what YOU would do to keep the energy flowing. He uses many of Sugar's moves, and the whole thing is in that overdrive tonal bag.



I don't know if it means anything, but it's interesting to compare Martin Lang and Russ Green as two Chicago-based players of roughly the same age. (And I haven't checked their ages; Green might be a little younger.) Lang, the white player has, as I've described it, a much more pedigreed sound, one much more solidly rooted in the tongue-blocking and tone of Big and Little Walter. One might even say he has the "blacker" sound. He certainly has a more traditional sound. Green, the black player, is, at least in this particular track (although not in other videos), just as derivative in his own way, but he's deriving his sound from a much more modern black precursor.

Here's the video that started me on this quest. Sure enough, when I cut ahead to Green's solo, he's working that Sugar Blue thing--most noticeably, perhaps, a repeated gliss to the 6 draw at a certain point.



Intriguing. I'd like to hear more.

Actually, here's a video where Green is playing somewhat less amped-up, and I like his ideas here. I can hear HIS voice somewhat more clearly--not really in his tone, but in certain of his melodic ideas and his staccato attack:

Last Edited by kudzurunner on Jun 18, 2015 11:27 AM
harmonicanick
2251 posts
Jun 18, 2015
11:43 AM
God the bar is so high in the States!
Really good musicians especially guitar but all brilliant.
Thanks for posting
Martin
825 posts
Jun 18, 2015
12:54 PM
@harmonicanick: But isn´t it oddly comforting (judging from video no 2) that a harmonica can sound just as crappy in Chicago, "Home of the blues", as in ... Wagga Wagga?
1847
2463 posts
Jun 18, 2015
2:08 PM
that is pretty harsh statement martin
you must be amazing. how come i haven't heard of you?

i have heard of russ green matter of fact
i went to hear him live and in person
i completely enjoyed his performance
harmonicanick
2252 posts
Jun 18, 2015
2:49 PM
@martin
Please explain your reasoning, I have no idea where you are comin' from....
JTThirty
291 posts
Jun 18, 2015
3:27 PM
I had never heard of Russ Green until I bought a release from Severn called Chicago Blues Harmonica Project: Diamonds In The Rough. It featured several more Chi-town players that I'd never heard about. Green had two cuts, both of them straight up Chicago blues covers. One from Howling Wolf and one from Little Walter. He struck me as the most polished of the harp players featured. Living Blues also featured him in an issue highlighting new up and comers. His tale does mention that going to see Sugar Blue in a club bent his mind and set him on his
way.
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Ricky B
http://www.bushdogblues.blogspot.com
RIVER BOTTOM BLUES--crime novel for blues fans available at Amazon/B&N, iTunes, iBook
THE DEVIL'S BLUES--ditto
HOWLING MOUNTAIN BLUES--Ditto too, now available
Owen Evans
48 posts
Jun 18, 2015
10:46 PM
I heard Russ Green in March at the Bonita Blues Festival in Florida. He was absolutely stunning as he kept the show going while Lurrie Bell broke seven or eight E-strings on his several guitars.
Russ was a superb harp player in the Chicago style and I would pay to hear him again. I get to see Lurrie again here in Ottawa Canada at our 2 week Blues festival in July. Can't wait!

http://www.ottawabluesfest.ca

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OE Stone
Danny Starwars
238 posts
Jun 19, 2015
12:13 AM
Crappy?

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My YouTube Channel - Any Likes or Comments appreciated. :)

http://tinyurl.com/muchtcc



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kudzurunner
5543 posts
Jun 19, 2015
4:14 AM
I went looking for more info on Green and came across this article:

Russ Green interview in Living Blues

My insight about the Sugar Blue influence turns out to be exactly right. You'll have to believe me when I say that I had NOT read this interview when I began the thread. It turns out that the interpersonal thing--which living example of harmonica excellence you happen to see live, be blow away by, and befriend--makes a huge, audible difference. Nothing surprising about that.
The Iceman
2522 posts
Jun 19, 2015
5:04 AM
He's playin' "Messin' w/the Kid", but playing that unison line incorrectly. Kinda spoiled my first impression of him.

Does this bother anyone else?
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The Iceman
marine1896
241 posts
Jun 19, 2015
6:33 AM
I have seen him on YT before, not gonna dis the guy let's be honest he is on the right stages AND backing Lurrie Bell!!!!
He just ain't got that certain something for my liking!
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"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"

Last Edited by marine1896 on Jun 19, 2015 6:45 AM
tomaxe
42 posts
Jun 19, 2015
6:43 AM
@Iceman:
Good point there, it bothered me... but about 95% of harp players blow that riff, even very good ones. I don't think Junior Wells even plays in unison with the band on the original recording, maybe he did it live, I'm not sure. When I saw him live he did not, he just solo'd and let the band play the "Messin'" riff.
This Russ Green has something, though. There's a little Billy Branch in there as well as Sugar Blue, I think. And from that interview he seems very humble and realistic about his playing.
Danny Starwars
239 posts
Jun 19, 2015
7:00 AM
That line did bother me a bit, but I really like some of the other stuff.


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My YouTube Channel - Any Likes or Comments appreciated. :)

http://tinyurl.com/muchtcc



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The Iceman
2524 posts
Jun 19, 2015
7:18 AM
I enjoy players who pay attention to detail.

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The Iceman
1847
2466 posts
Jun 19, 2015
8:01 AM
lets see if i have the riff correct
6 blow 5 draw 4 draw 3 draw 1/2 step bend 3 draw full step bend
2 draw 2 draw full step bend 2 draw
Tuckster
1472 posts
Jun 19, 2015
8:17 AM
Russ Green-huh? I couldn't really see the stage well from where I was sitting,but I could certainly hear him. I was impressed and so was the crowd. Good player.

As for Sugar Blue,I only got to see him play at the Willie Dixon tribute. I'm not a fan. His solos were very notey but more importantly had zero swing and didn't follow the groove of the song.I'm not against notey. Adam and Jason can be notey but they still swing and groove.I respect S.B's technical virtuosity but musically he leaves me cold. Sorry fans,just my opinion.
Diggsblues
1854 posts
Jun 19, 2015
8:29 AM
@Iceman yeah I heard that. Junior Wells doesn't play that line but every harp player seems to want to play it.
Adam Sugar Blue came to mind as soon as I hear him play.
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1847
2473 posts
Jun 19, 2015
10:29 AM
he is leaving out 4 blow?
Tuckster
1473 posts
Jun 19, 2015
12:30 PM
I think he's bending the four draw.
The way I play it: 6D 5B 4D 4B 3Half 3full 2D 2half 2D
1847
2476 posts
Jun 19, 2015
3:23 PM
pretty sure it is just the blues scale
The Iceman
2525 posts
Jun 20, 2015
4:52 AM
Tuckster tabbed out the actual Messin' line.

It's not strictly the blues scale, as there is 3 inhale full bend in the original line.
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The Iceman
Harmonicatunes
51 posts
Jun 20, 2015
5:15 AM
Glad I don't have to come on after him...
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Tony Eyers
Australia
www.HarmonicaAcademy.com
everyone plays...
1847
2481 posts
Jun 20, 2015
6:52 AM
i am not surprised i have it wrong lol

but that is not right either if it starts on the 2 nd note of the scale
it would end on the 2 nd note of the scale

i do very much appreciate this discussion
1847
2482 posts
Jun 20, 2015
7:07 AM
the notes are
c Bb g f Eb d c Bb C
1847
2483 posts
Jun 20, 2015
8:28 AM
messin with the kid is a blues in C
the first chord is a c7
a c7 contains a Bb the flat 7
it is typically played in cross harp on a F harmonica

if the first note is 6 draw that would be 4 th position
key of C on an Eb harp

if he is using 4 th position no wonder there is a note off somewhere
pharpo
776 posts
Jun 23, 2015
9:57 AM
I got " Chicago Blues Harmonica Project: Diamonds In The Rough" several years ago and really like his stuff. His cover of Muddy's " Everything Is Gonna Be Alright" is one of my favorites.
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Photobucket

Procrastinator Emeritus
1847
2512 posts
Jun 24, 2015
6:35 PM
that first track is some bad ass shit
"maubeuge" pardon my french.
1847
2513 posts
Jun 25, 2015
8:00 AM
i would like to take this opportunity to beat a dead horse
but did any one notice he was playing a special 20?
the guitar , bass and keyboard are all equal tempered
the harmonica is compromised just intonation.
just sayin.
The Iceman
2543 posts
Jun 25, 2015
8:03 AM
1847..

If you were blindfolded, would you have been able to hear the difference in unison notes between harmonica and the rest of the band?
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The Iceman
1847
2514 posts
Jun 25, 2015
8:26 AM
i doubt it, i cant hear them without the blindfold
not sure i heard them before you pointed it out.

the point i am trying to make is everyone is making a big deal out of equal tempered and compromised tuning
either can be used. in most if not all instances.

he is playing a lot of single notes and octaves
a lee oskar or a manji would sound just as well.
Martin
827 posts
Jun 25, 2015
8:37 AM
@1847 et al: Nope, I ain´t "amazing". And having opinions on somebody´s sound has no requirement of amazingness in it. It´s an opinion you can have without having blown a single note on a harmonica.

People tend to make this mistake frequently: "You cannot criticize another player unless you´re better yourself."
That´s a terribly primitive notion of criticism and unworthy of a debating forum; also my specific point here wasn´t even on musicality, but sound.
smwoerner
293 posts
Jun 25, 2015
9:07 AM
I saw big smiles on the other band members faces. I saw the crowd having fun. Yes, I could hear he was not in perfect unison note wise with the band but, while I'm normally a big fan of symmetry something about this actually helped hold my interest. Maybe the chemo screwed up my hearing more than I thought :). His vibrato was really good, he mixed up fast runs with octaves, long single notes, triplets, and some nice single hole work. I'd pay to hear them play and be happy about it.
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scott@scottwoerner.com
The Iceman
2544 posts
Jun 25, 2015
9:12 AM
1847 - different tunings have the most effect when one plays chords on the harmonica, although I can really hear a JI 5 hole inhale "flatness" when the note is sustained.

In total ensemble playing, very few can hear any differences between temperaments. However, solo harmonica a la Sonny Boy et al, one can hear EQ temp vs just tuning if listening closely.
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The Iceman

Last Edited by The Iceman on Jun 25, 2015 9:13 AM
1847
2515 posts
Jun 25, 2015
9:14 AM
martin, if i am not mistaking you for someone else i
seem to recall you posting your playing and i remember it was quite good
i believe i made a comment to that effect when it was posted.

i am an american and i firmly believe you have a right to express your opinion
furthermore taste is not good or bad it is personal
i can easily see how someone may not like this style of playing, no problem there
my thoughts are this, this player has put in a lot of hard work and effort
and i applaud him. i think you could of put in a little effort in forming your comments
that is what bothered me. not so much what you said but how you said it. thats all
Martin
828 posts
Jun 26, 2015
6:34 AM
But 1847, I was referring to his SOUND. That was my point. Not how he musically produced that sound. In particular player no 2 in video no 2 (Carey Bell´s son, it appears). That was the "oddly comforting" thing: crappy sound follows us harmonica players like a faithful dog -- even in Chicago, apparently.

Expressing opinions and a right to do that is not specifically tied to Americans, but we obviously share a common ground there, and I salute it.
My own playing is not particularly impressive, but I can stand my ground here and there. More importantly though, my opinions are not in any way linked to my own playing. Not in any way.

Now all he best to you and have a nice Friday, if it´s still on the calendar.
ted burke
304 posts
Jun 26, 2015
6:42 AM
I like this guy a lot. Crisp, clean, bright and , yes, fast. He phrases evocatively in the low, middle and high registers, and , like Sugar, he builds tension with terrific ways of attacking each chorus. I like his introduction to Messing with the Kid; it's a different way of playing it. Works for me.
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Ted Burke

tburke4@san.rr.com
atty1chgo
1280 posts
Jun 27, 2015
7:25 AM
Thanks for posting, Adam. The first two clips are just Green channeling Sugar Blue, but with earthier vocals and without overextended solos. The first one is as if he wanted to do a mirror cover to a great degree. If I want to hear Messin' With The Kid in the almost exact style of SB, I'll go see him directly. I agree that his own voice and the direction of it can be heard in the third clip.

As for hearing Billy Branch, maybe a little in his comping in video #2, but a very early Billy when he was just starting out as a sideman with Willie Dixon. Still, his approach, in my opinion, is more soulful than that of Matt Skoller, who has backed Lurrie on harp a number of times live and on recordings. I'll have to keep an eye out for him around town.

Last Edited by atty1chgo on Jun 27, 2015 7:26 AM
ted burke
307 posts
Jun 27, 2015
3:14 PM
I don't think he's playing the riff incorrectly, just differently. I gather this is an artistic decision , not a case of doing it wrongly. There is no law that maintains that the synchronization of the riff has to be in clone-heavy unison. This version creates tension that fits the hard rock/ overdrive emphasis. It cuts t hrough nicely, is dynamic, and the notes don't clash. It is SB influenced, yes, but I found his playing here to be genuinely inspired. Nice work.
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Ted Burke

tburke4@san.rr.com
jpmcbride
96 posts
Jun 27, 2015
4:06 PM
Agree with Iceman. The band sounds better/cleaner/tighter when the riff was played without the harp.

But enjoyed the playing overall.

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Jim McBride
www.bottleoblues.com
The Iceman
2556 posts
Jun 27, 2015
5:53 PM
Not agreeing w/Ted's take (sounds more like what Ted might say if it were him playing on this video instead of Russ).

My years of experience with musicians and situations like this offer this opinion...

Russ is not choosing to play what he does, clashing by consciously playing a note 1/2 step away from the rest of the band to create a weird tension - he is just oblivious to the sound of the clash and playing it how he always played it.

If it's his band, they probably wouldn't want to suggest to their leader that he is playing it wrong.

Band dynamics and all, y'know.
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The Iceman

Last Edited by The Iceman on Jun 27, 2015 5:55 PM
ted burke
308 posts
Jun 27, 2015
7:17 PM
Larry, I would respect your opinion more if you didn't feel the need to include a parenthetical aside about my motives, ie,"-- (sounds more like what Ted might say if it were him playing on this video instead of Russ)."

This is a passive aggressive dig at my motives for saying positive things about the way Green performed the song the way he did. As you might recall, I spoke to my version of "Messin" in the "you're playing it wrong" thread and pretty much copped to my playing the riff incorrectly. Perhaps you should read that again , it's still posted. From the there, the conversation expanded somewhat. On this thread, I was discussing Green's version, Green's playing, and what I believe was Green's choice to play the song the way he did. It seems to me that one of his band members would have clued him to the difference between the standard rendition and the way he played it; I believe that with or without the band member's input, Green's execution was a result of a conscious choice he made. We disagree here. Articulating our differences, though, is not enough for you, and you feel the need to personalize it with irrelevant asides. It's bad form , Larry, and cheap. You asked the question here regarding your displeasure at hearing a version of the head that was other than your preference:

" Does this bother anyone else?"

I gave you an honest answer and you respond with what amounts to an ad hominem dig. Attack the arguer, not the argument.

Please stop doing that. I would rather you keep your answers about the topics at hand and leave issues as to my playing , motives and such out of the points your aiming to make.Otherwise I will take this up with the moderators
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Ted Burke

tburke4@san.rr.com

Last Edited by ted burke on Jun 28, 2015 6:56 AM
The Iceman
2558 posts
Jun 28, 2015
7:25 AM
Yes, Ted. I do apologize.

Please don't tell "mom and dad" on me. :>)
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The Iceman
marine1896
258 posts
Jun 28, 2015
8:22 AM
I agree with Ted on this I thought that Russ Green had knowingly played that riff the way he did by choice. Pity there is not another version of him doing that song? Not that I'm personally in any hurry to listen to him again, that style of funky/smooth type blues does nothing for me! It's kind of like what you expect to hear a house band play on an sort chat show.
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"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"
1847
2533 posts
Jun 28, 2015
8:52 AM
here you go 1896 just what the doctor ordered

1847
2534 posts
Jun 28, 2015
9:00 AM
does anyone else hear what sounds like an altered tuning?
perhaps one note in the top octave.
marine1896
259 posts
Jun 28, 2015
9:05 AM
Well, Sugar Blue is Sugar Blue a one off and amazing!
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"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"
1847
2535 posts
Jun 28, 2015
9:08 AM
notice that russ green even has the feedback at the end of the song. just like this clip.
marine1896
260 posts
Jun 28, 2015
9:28 AM
1847 I thought when I first heard RG on YT a while back that it was way too much like SB and for the reasons already stated. But I may feel like this as SB is still very much a living performing artist, it's probably very flattering for SB and I know there are a ton of Little Walter wannabes, copyists or heavily influenced by him out there but there's just something 'too much' about RG in those regards. And yes I agree about the feedback.
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"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"


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