WinslowYerxa
880 posts
Jun 17, 2015
2:28 PM
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If you hear a sustained note being played without any telltale techniques like slaps, etc., ca you tell whether a note is being played with tongue block, lips only, U-block, etc?
N the linked clip, I play the same note four times, each time with a different embouchure.
Can anyone name which embouchure(s) I use and when?
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
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Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jun 17, 2015 4:38 PM
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CarlA
794 posts
Jun 17, 2015
2:31 PM
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It depends what color your skin is. This can have vital importance in tone, intonation, etc
;)
(NB: being sarcastic!!!!)
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Jim Rumbaugh
1140 posts
Jun 17, 2015
2:43 PM
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hmmmmmm that link doesn't work for me.
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Rontana
115 posts
Jun 17, 2015
4:05 PM
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Same here . . . the link is refusing to cooperate (or maybe you're just playing VERY softly)
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WinslowYerxa
881 posts
Jun 17, 2015
4:39 PM
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OK, I revised the link. Hope it works better for all this time.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Deepen your playing at the Harmonica Collective
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jun 17, 2015 4:39 PM
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nacoran
8528 posts
Jun 17, 2015
5:03 PM
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I have invented a device, which I will call the Schumman, that will strengthen your tongue to improve your playing ability (and maybe other things... like articulating tongue twisters correctly.)
Did you ever want to play the 1-10 split? No problem. The 1-3-6-10 split? No problem. Just send $19.95 to Tongueincheekproductions care of Justin Bieber. (Call him for refunds). Tongue-in-Cheek Productions makes no warranty relating to claims regarding this product and is not liable for career ending injuries resulting from proper or improper use of this product. Not affiliated with Collagen-for-a-Fatter-Tone Industries or Spit-Take Harmonica Cleaning Products.
----
I think well played, tongue blocking vs. pucker, and/or comb material (comb quality does make a difference though, and I think cover materials does too) doesn't make a discernible difference in tone as long as you are playing notes that can be achieved with either technique. For simple chords or single notes, to my ear, they sound the same. Different temperaments I can usually hear, and cover shape and open/closed back/side vented I think are real and (I think) I can tell the difference most of the time, but tongue blocking or puckering, as long as they are being done well (with the harp jammed far enough in your mouth) sound the same to me unless you start doing things like split octaves.
I wonder what it is about having the harp deep in your mouth that makes it 'good' tone. Does the coverplate resonate in your mouth? Does it just give you a good seal? Does it force you, because you don't have as much room in your mouth, to use deeper breath support? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Nate
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BC
45 posts
Jun 17, 2015
6:53 PM
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I can discern some differences between the four. I figured it's a 3 draw and bend on a b-flat harp. Your bends on the first and third time sound cleaner, particularly the third. My guess is they are the common embrouchures of tongue blocking and pucker (lip purse). Maybe tongue on the first, and lip on the third time, but just a guess. The third has the best bend, very full. The third ending almost has a very slight sound that would use lip. The fourth has a weak bend so could be u-block. However I'm no expert, so I could be way off. But it was fun to trying to figure it out.
BC
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Dragonbreath
56 posts
Jun 17, 2015
8:00 PM
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I'm pretty sure it's 4 draw on G harp. Not the easiest hole to spot a difference and at the risk of making a fool out of myself I'll take a shot.
Anyways, this is based on the assumption that you TB, lip block (having harp holes against lower lip, pucker ("kissing"/old lady) and U-block (toungue in u-shape)
I'll start with no4, which I think is U-block. I think so because the note sounds flat, and it's easy to catch a little bend when U-blocking if not careful when drawing. No3 also sounds a little flat, but only briefly. I think that it's lip blocking. That bend also feels lip blocked to me.
So I think 2 is lip pursed just because it sounds slightly thinner (but not bad at all) and 1 is TB, but a no nonsense TB with a quick bend and without putting any overly big effort into it, maybe not to give it away too much.
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The Iceman
2517 posts
Jun 18, 2015
4:03 AM
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Winslow..
You give four examples and speak of three techniques and an "etc".
I am confused.
Are we supposed to figure out what technique the "etc." is?
Is it four examples using only the three techniques described and one is used twice?
Please help me to understand.
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The Iceman
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dougharps
946 posts
Jun 18, 2015
7:38 AM
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I use Firefox and only see a dark gray box. Clicking has no effect, and there is no prompt. Is there a plugin I need, or what? Obviously the Dropbox link is working for some people.
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Doug S.
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Frank101
94 posts
Jun 18, 2015
8:08 AM
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They all sound the same.
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Diggsblues
1852 posts
Jun 18, 2015
8:19 AM
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Not much difference. I really am more concerned about what art gets made the how not so much.
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Rhartt1234
186 posts
Jun 18, 2015
8:25 AM
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I have always agrued that embochure doesn't matter that much for single notes. Pucker, TB, U block all sound the same. It is the attack and texture you get from slapping with a tongue blocked embochure that makes it a technique worth learning and separates the men from the boys.
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Baker
406 posts
Jun 18, 2015
8:26 AM
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Not being able to U-Block I have no idea what it might sound like tonally. I'd hazard a guess just for fun though:
1. The first one sounds tongue blocked to me, tone sounds slightly smoother and the attack on the note slightly softer. Bend sounds like it's coming fro the back of the throat.
2. The second one sounds lip pursed. Tone has a slightly sharp edge at the top end. Vibrato and bend sounds like it's being created with the mouth "Yoy yoy yoy" sound.
3 /4 Both sound the same to me. Sounds like the bend and vibrato are being created from the back of the throat again, tone sounds slightly harsher than the first one. I'd have a punt and say these are probably U-Blocked.
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Greg Heumann
3022 posts
Jun 18, 2015
8:36 AM
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I agree - embouchure on a single note, in the absence of hand effects, doesn't matter much. A good open throat and nice vibrato - good tone.
However embouchure DOES affect note to note transitions, rhythmic counterpoint (slaps, pulls) - and depth of "hand technique" (Unless you can play a 4 draw in LP position and still completely seal the front holes of the harp on both sides of your mouth - I can't - you can't get nearly as deep a "wah" as if you TB so you only have to seal the high end of the harp.)
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WinslowYerxa
882 posts
Jun 18, 2015
10:14 AM
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OK, The first one was tongue blocked played out of the right side of my mouth. Second was pucker/lip purse (no tongue), third was tongue block played out of the left side of my mouth, and the fourth was U-block. And it was Draw 4 on a G-harp.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Deepen your playing at the Harmonica Collective
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Harp2swing
190 posts
Jun 18, 2015
10:20 PM
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Winslow, what make harp were you playing?
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WinslowYerxa
886 posts
Jun 18, 2015
11:15 PM
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What make of harp?
Well, the reedplates are Hohner MS reedplates circa 1997, with some reedwork by me.
The comb is a solid milled acrylic comb made by the same machinist who used to cut my Discrete Combs.
The top cover is a Big River cover (vented) and the bottom cover is an MS Pro harp cover (not vented)
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Deepen your playing at the Harmonica Collective
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SuperBee
2698 posts
Jun 19, 2015
3:11 AM
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I'm impressed that everyone who attempted it was substantially correct. Especially considering the left side tongue block was etc.
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The Iceman
2523 posts
Jun 19, 2015
5:09 AM
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Noticed that the bend during the tb left side of mouth touched the "floor" while the other three were what I call "a foot above the floor".
Caused by technique or just a whoopsie?
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jun 19, 2015 5:56 AM
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marine1896
238 posts
Jun 19, 2015
6:10 AM
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Darn it...too late to chime in, I was pretty close.
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