What do you consider the hardest technique on a harmonica? Is it overblows? The ten hole half step bend? I've heard that James Conway can play a split octave and bend only one of the notes.
Lets have a lively discussion!
Last Edited by Philosofy on May 27, 2015 6:30 PM
I can get the 10 hole half step pretty good on most harps Eb and below and the 1 overblow on most harps etc and can play and bend only one note on a split, Carlos does it, Michalek did it, Howard does it and certainly James can….I think the hardest thing, more than anything, on our (diatonic) instrument is GOOD , accurate, consistent intonation on bends, the 3 hole bends primarily. Meow ---------- www.mooncat.org
As a 40+ year lip purser, I am finding tongue blocking a challenge. I have been playing splits and octaves forever but tongue blocking on one side and getting a good clear note is a big change for me. But I am committed to getting good at it and I am making progress. It has also opened my eyes about a lot of things that were a bit of mystery to me. Learning to draw bend with your tongue on the harp is vastly different from lip pursing and I now have a better understanding of what guys mean when they talk about opening your throat.
It seems (at least to my ears) that the two biggest things that are hard for a lot of harp players to do is 1: play bends/over bends in tune. (As Jason said above) 2: it seems really hard for harp players NOT to abuse hand vibrato. It does have its place, but overuse can turn an awesome solo from intense to cheeseball in an instant.
Last Edited by 20REEDS on May 27, 2015 10:15 PM
I would go with overblows because I can't do them and hate those who can, but @walterharp - as someone coming back to playing after decades away (and I wasn't all that good when I stopped!) I'd have to say that actually, being able to slow down and be economical is proving to be a real challenge.
I recently watched a clip Adam did about playing slow (I think it was a porch clip?)
One of my favourite live tracks is James Harman playing an achingly slow Blues - he begins with long, sustained notes which a vibrato starts to creep into, and then the tone (all from his technique) starts to change from a softer to a more trebly sound. It's like a nergasmic moment for me.
As much as speed is often seen as a mark of an accomplished player, I believe the other end of the spectrum is just as necessary - the ability to play slow, uncluttered Blues harp with real polish sets apart the masters from the hacks and students.
---------- My YouTube Channel - Any Likes or Comments appreciated. :)
- Playing overbend or 3rd in tune from leap with opposite breathing, e.g. Going from 6 draw to overblow 4. - Playing the same stuff full of bends and overbends on every harmonica: easy on Bb, not easy using F or LowC. - 1st hole bend on lowC, - 10 blow bend halfstep on high harps. - 1st hole overblow on A harp and below, especially from leap. - 3rd hole bend intonation on G and lower or Eb and higher. - playing major in 5-9 positions (minor in 8-12 positions)
Well I guess it depends what you mean by "technique." As Walter says, playing the right stuff at the right time is the biggest challenge and is the essence of all good music.
But I assume you mean the actual technical playing of the instrument. For me, tongue-blocking those top-hole bends and getting it to sound sweet (a la Mitch) is tough.
I'm now going through David Barrett's bluesharmonica.com series (best harmonica investment I've ever made). Producing an in tune 1/2 step bend on the 3 draw and 4 draw, while tongue blocking and getting good tone, is proving to be extremely difficult for me. I've almost got it... Well sort of, anyway.
I like Boris's list. For non-overblowers, the half-step bend on the 10 blow of an F harp might be a good extreme challenge.
Just jumped up from my chair to try it. Got it as a useful, playable note in 10-15 seconds. Hit the 10 blow, then the half-step bend, then 9 blow. fourth....major third.....tonic. Get that sound in your head. Do it an octave lower first, if need be: 7 blow, 7 draw, 6 blow.
Bending intonation and timber for sure...but after that, for me, is playing out of both sides of my mouth like Howard, Carlos, and Conway do. I just can't get down. ---------- Mike My Website My Harmonica Effects Blog
To get ahead playing out of both sides, work on playing tongue-blocked single notes out of the LEFT side of your mouth.
Also work locked splits of different sizes:
-- You're probably accustomed to playing a locked split with a four-hole spread and a two-hole block. This produces octaves on the blow notes and a variety of intervals on the draw notes.
-- Also try working a locked split with a five-hole spread and a three-hole block. This produces various wide intervals on the blow notes, but from Draw 3 through 10 it produces octaves.
--Try playing a blow octave (four-hole spread), then widen it out to five on the right side, then go back to the four-hole octave. Repeat a few times, then try widening out to five on the left side, then returning to the four-hole octave.
-- Then try it on the draw notes between 3 and 10, but start with the five-hole octave and narrow it to four holes on either side, returning to the five-hole octave.
-- By alternating between a five-hole spread and a four-hole spread, you can play a scale in octaves: Draw7-3, Blow 7-4, Draw 8-4, Blow 8-5, Draw 9-5, Blow 9-6, Draw 10-6 Blow 10-7
You can repeat all this stuff with a three-hole spread, alternating with a four-hole spread. =========== Winslow
Every technique is only as difficult as the mind believes it is. Sounds esoteric, but good ole fashioned work, effort , etc will get you were you want to be :)
Tongue switching (tongue blocking out of both corners of the mouth alternately); bending one note of a chord while playing that chord; consistent intonation.
Last Edited by hvyj on May 28, 2015 8:42 AM
How about the 1-hole / 4-hole split octave overblow? (both yielding the flat third in first position). Seems quite doable (I'm not getting it yet -- though I have discovered that I can TB the 1-hole overblow on the left side!). This has to be harder than a half-step bend on the 10-hole of a high harp (even tongue blocked) -- for me anyway.
Last Edited by yonderwall on May 29, 2015 6:42 AM
I can do it, but can't sustain it. I think Catfish Frye posted a video once of something similar... maybe a 6 overblow and 7 blow together? Can't remember exactly.
CarlA, don't forget this old standard, the B minor chord with the doubled root on a C harp.
F# (2 draw bend) B (3 draw) D (4 draw) B (10 blowbend using reverse airpressure from a tight cup)
:)
Has anyone ever managed to get a bend/overblow/blowbend on a hole using reverse pressure/tight cup while? Would you have to shape the resonant chamber with your hand instead of your mouth?
I'm just now starting to think of throwing an overblow in here and there, but only where I need a cranky sound. I do occasionally use the backpressure method on my LLF when I'm playing to entertain myself.
I just had to cut a riff from one of our tunes. By the standards of the pros on the forum it's not much, but it had me a little tongue tied. No bends, but a little melody going on on the right side of the mouth, and confusing for my mind that I'm not sure I could tab it out correctly- something like this.
@yonderwall - I can't get them, but it's pretty rough! I don't think it's something I would try and use in a song unless I were able to really smooth it out.
Hardest technique...well, all the ones i don't do because they seem too difficult to even think about. but there are those i attempt and don't do very well. they include any overblow which isn't the 6, but sometimes the 6 as well, Tongue-blocking the 10 blow bend on most harps higher than Bb, just playing the 10 half step, playing any chamber other than 1 out the left side, bending the 1 draw out the left side of my tongue, bending the 1 draw on harps below G, sometimes Low F is OK depending on the harp, clean splits moving from 2 to 3 hole blocking, agility, playing bent notes in tune.
playing in tune and moving is the only one of those i think will bother anyone when i play.
Correct Todd Parrott. Sometimes when I play slow 12 bar blues I use the double stop 6 overblow with 7 blow. Hit it hard on the IV chord and it gives you flat 7th and root. (Really effective if you just played 2/5 draw on one chord...root, flat 7)
Hardest part is NOT blow bend the 7 a little. If you do it doesn't sound correct.
I've found it useful in 5th position as well.
The one/four split overblow sounds awesome Todd...do it..That spoon , that spoon, that spoon ---------- www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
I would be overjoyed if I could boost an overtone of an overblow. Not sure if that makes sense. On a midrange reed, I can alter the tone in such a way that my tuner thinks I'm playing the fifth (second harmonic). It'd be nice if I could do that with an overblow.
The Big O, from stage. I've been close a few times, so I'm told. George Smith eye action good, proper spacing between notes -essential. Working the long LW slide through all of the half step bends with just enough tension between each is also useful. And really slow vibrato countered with solid, well placed, TB warble just before the turn around...
Tom, it took me a dozen years to become comfortable and proficient at tongue blocking. Most satisfying thing I've done with harps though. Now that it has become my main embouchure, I love exploring the endless benefits of TB'ing.
But for me as a non-overblower easily the most difficult techniques are the family of astounding Gwin Foster warbles. Only two players I know who can do this, Joe Filisko and James Conway (what ~are~ they drinking in Chicago?).
Joe and James both describe it as almost a side-to-side spasm of the tongue. Joe has demonstrated it on his TB Trainer for me, but seeing is not doing. Try as I may, I just can't manage to do even the most simple of the GF warbles. I have begun to think that it is a genetic tongue-curl type of thing.
If you listen to this song, you will hear Gwin warbling between two blow notes, two unbent draw notes, one bent and one unbent draw note, and on and on. Unbelievable, and in the 1930s.
Check it out!
Thanks,
Michelle
PS: Gwin is the spelling on his headstone.
---------- SilverWingLeather.com email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
Last Edited by mlefree on May 29, 2015 10:07 AM
- Articulating any double (or more) overbends - Leaping to and from any kind of blow bends to 1°. Starting from hole 4. - Having any kind of control over TB bends. - Now that i think about it, articulating any notes actually.. or not exactly articulating but putting meaning and intentions behind every notes i play and not relying on muscle memory to get a sound out of the harp.
The first 3 items on that list are just techniques and like any kind of technique, times and dedication should do the trick to get over those obstacles. Item 2 on my list is a good example, i couldn't leap back and forth from any notes to 1°, now any notes on holes 1 to 3 aren't a problem and draw notes higher than that are doable. Not perfect but not impossible.
However, item 4 on that list... nope, i don't see any solution to that one so far practice ain't helping at all.
I agree with Jason. Playing precise bends, on a range of harmonicas, is challenging and very important. Many can bend in a lazy fashion, for expression. But not as many can hit those bends accurately and play those notes as a choice.
Danny Starwars makes a good point about economical playing. The Jimmy Reed style is a prime example. That guy mastered that economical style to great effect and ended selling more records than Muddy, Wolf,... combined. Begs the question: when we play, are we playing for ourselves, with our ego, or are playing for the music and for the listener? ---------- Marc Graci YouTube Channel
I have to pass on most of the above. If ever I find myself in a roomful of players who can actually do this stuff, pretending I'm the pizza delivery guy works best for me.
But still... How about getting the 3 hold full tone bend to sound like the adjacent unbent notes. ---------- Tony Eyers Australia www.HarmonicaAcademy.com everyone plays...
The split warble (Gwin Foster) that Michelle mentions was also used by Little Walter. One of the things that distinguishes Little Walter from the George Smith-inspired West Coast school is that LW did side-to-side tongue motions (the ones I call rakes - sounding all the notes in yor mouth -and shimmers - rapidly alternating the single notes in the corners of your mouth) while the west coasters use on-off tongue motions (I call them hammers, while Dave Barrett alls the flutters). Slow down the side-to-side shimmer and you get corner switching.
I learned side-to-side techniques on my own as a teenager and use them along with all the other tongue block techniques.
It seems to be one of those tongue things that some folks genetically can do and others can't. I remember showing some of them to Paul deLay and him declaring himself to be on the "can't" camp. =========== Winslow
I can not overblow my Magnus harmonica, or get all the draw bends to sound all that good. Ah yes kinda brings me back, to the time when I just couldn't bend or overblow much at all. Surprise, blow bends are reasonably playable on the Magnus.
I am blown away that it plays as well as it does
Michael
P.S. I like to buy harmonicas on ebay that I really don't need
mlfree, I'd never heard that Gwen Foster track before, although I've heard Joe do stuff sort of like that. Whew! Thanks for posting that. I have immediately posted it on the "best harmonica videos" page on this website. It certainly meets the WTF test.
I don't worry about any of it. I just do what I do and don't really know what that is. Everyone seems to like it though so it must be alright. LOL...Goose
