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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
How do you tune successfully? 1001 questions...
How do you tune successfully? 1001 questions...
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rpnfan
12 posts
Mar 29, 2015
7:54 AM
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I hate to play detuned instruments. Unfortunatelly I find it very hard to learn how to tune a harp.
I have searched the internet, looked at videos, tried to follow the suggestions, but still I am very unsure what's the "best" (or at least good) way how to practically tune the harmonica.
I'm pretty sure that I want to aim for a compromise temperament (19-limit is the one which seems most promising for my taste / needs, I guess based on A = 443Hz). I hate the ET of my Bluesmasters (BTW, how can you call a harmonica bluesmaster and use ET tuning?????)
I have a chromatic tuner with a decent cent scale (Seiko SAT-500) and some files and something to use support the reeds
But I have two problems:
1) How should I create a _stable_ tone, without altering the pitch during that process?
Try tuning bare reed plates (mouth on reed plates approach)? Or tune with the reed plates mounted to the comb? Purchase the french tuner? How do you warm-up the reed-plates (and keep them warm enough during the tuning process) so moisture does not condensate? Mount the draw reed as a blow reed to only use blow (not to accidently bent) or ....? Using a clip-on mic for the tuner (attached to the harp / reed-plates) seems to help to be able to play quiet, thus less chance to bent the notes accidently. But does it make sense to play with minimal air, when later in real-world usage you will play soft _and_ normal _and_ harder?
2) Which tool to use? Rotary tool?
File (for raising only or also lowering the pitch)? Scraper (which I do not have so far, but could try to use a flat screwdriver first, use the scraper only for lowering the pitch. From Richard Sleighs tool video it seems to be "the" tool. Why not use it for rising the pitch also? What to use as a scraper? Andrews five-cent tool? (what about more then 5 cents...), Seydels Soundcheck Vol. 3 - SETUP PACK (seems to be nice, but does dismiss a file and for "just" a piece of metal 40 Euro seems expensive -- although I could be wrong), purchase Richards (quite expensive IMO) tools, use whatever else...?
Not to mention the thousand questions like: Tune octaves by ear? By tuner? Base frequency different for blow / draw plate differently? Stretch / not to stretch...? Stroke in the middle or sides of reeds (I have read comments which favour on _or_ the other....)
So far I have had no real success with my attempts. I seem to struggle already to realize a stable unbend sound or not getting problems with moisture. I never had problems tuning my guitar by ear (with chords and harmonics). It drives me crazy that this little instrument seems to hard to tune to sound nicely :-(
Have I overlooked "the" tutorial how to do it? I must admit I did not shell out the bucks for Richards video tutorials. Those instructions seem to be centered about "optimizing" the harp. I have no problems with my bends or whatever, but _just_ with the tuning. I even e-mailed Richard to hear if his video will answer my questions, but his answer was not direct, only that the videos would be worth the money.... :-(
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JInx
1013 posts
Mar 29, 2015
8:04 AM
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Hi
Pkaying in tune comes ultimately from your embouch and breath force.
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arzajac
1619 posts
Mar 29, 2015
8:57 AM
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Hello Rpnfan.
I touch on all of your concerns here in one way or another here:
http://harp.andrewzajac.ca/tune
But I'll elaborate on your specific concers:
1- How should I create a _stable_ tone, without altering the pitch during that process?
Well, every note on the harp is susceptible to being played a little off-pitch. Specifically, if you play with very low breath, you will raise the pitch, if you play with very hard breath, you will lower it and your embouchure also plays a big role.
You need to tune the harp taking into account your style of playing. Keep the breath force in the middle of where you play and keep your embouchure as natural as possible - keep the plates on the comb. The French Tuner is the exception - designed to allow you to keep your embouchure while the plate is off the comb. But the FT is a time saver, not a strict necessity.
Relax, too. If you have to tune five harps in one sitting, maybe you will need to quit after the third one if you are tensing up. You will notice that you start to work against yourself as you tense up.
2- Which tool to use? Rotary tool?
Tools don't tune harps, harmonica-service-providers do! Use whatever tool you feel the most comfortable with. I can't use files for the same reason folks who use files say they can't use rotary tools. The reeds get bent out of shape and I have less control of how much brass I take off when I use a file. Whatever. Use what works.
You need to take off careful amounts of brass without distorting the reed. There is no magic to it.
- Tune octaves by ear?
Yes. But that can mean many things. Using the octaves also serves as a cross-reference, a reality check. Definitely, do not tune by table. Reeds don't work that way!
- By tuner? Base frequency different for blow / draw plate differently?
Well, the 3 blow must match the 2 draw. The 3 blow will need to be slightly sharp because it's in the low octave and because it's a fifth. The 2 draw is a key notes (the tonic!) in the draw plate. And our embouchure is different for draw notes than blow. And there are a few other reasons for tuning the draw plat a little sharper than the blow for many people. If it suits your style of play, yes, it's a good decision.
If it's incompatible with your style of play, then tune the harp to what sounds best.
- Stretch / not to stretch...?
Lol! The harp is not a piano. But, do you want to emphasize perfect octaves on the top end of the harp or do you want the chords or single notes to sound perfect? Do you like wet octaves? (you can make a perfect octave wet by altering your embouchure and breath force, but...) Those things count so much more than stretching notes as you would on a non-harmonica instrument.
- Stroke in the middle or sides of reeds (I have read comments which favour on _or_ the other....)
It won't make the work of tuning the harp any different. The only bad answer is to lower the pitch by scraping from side-to-side on the base of the reed. That will create a weak spot.
Hope that helps!
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Mar 29, 2015 9:00 AM
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shakeylee
206 posts
Mar 29, 2015
11:04 AM
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one thing i have found to be fast and easy with ET harps ,is to just lower the thirds ever so slightly.makes for a nice chord without too much work.
also,i practiced tuning on broken or cheap harps.huangs and marine bands.
i do use files,but also sand paper. in a pinch i have scratched away at reeds with a pin!
you can also start out with harps that are closer to just!
good luck
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www.shakeylee.com
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Thievin' Heathen
510 posts
Mar 29, 2015
11:32 AM
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I bought the Seydel Setup Pack at the 2012 SPAH convention and still use it. I recommend it. It keeps me "on track" with what's going on, and it's very easy to get a little A.D.D. and get off track.
There is a lot going on with a harmonica reed. I use a file on the low reeds because you need to remove a lot of material from the 1-3 draw reeds that go flat. I also have one of those abrasive sticks. A scrape on 4-7 will usually get you there and I use 1 of those Harbor Freight $6 rotary engraving pencils. A scratch will usually do it on 8-10 and I use a carbide scribe (look in the welding section of your local hardware store) for that.
On blow reeds that are way out of tune, I write down how far off they are, take the reed plate off and then take off about as much material as I think will do it and then put them back together. Then I will zing them from the back side to zero in. I have a single sided tuning cap similar to Andrew's French Tuner, but I would buy Andrew's thing if I did not have it. I sometime use that to get all the reeds close to in tune. Get something to plink the reeds with and plink all the time. Burrs are building up and plinking keeps things clean.
After I think I have everything pretty close, I put the harp back together and play it awhile. Then I pull the covers off and re-tune everything using the pencil engraver, and the scribe, which is also a pencil. The rotary engraver works real well to just "zing" a reed to pull it to where you want it.
Play it and practice with it and check it again in 3-5 days.
I watch the needle on the tuner. I play octaves, but the needle is governing what I am doing. I like the way my harps sound.
Now, forget everything I've written and read the stuff on Andrew's and Richard Sleigh's websites.
Note: I saw some of Richard's tools at a convention in Tulsa a couple of weeks ago. Worth every penny.
Last Edited by Thievin' Heathen on Mar 29, 2015 11:35 AM
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