Leatherlips
303 posts
Nov 21, 2014
11:29 PM
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So what is everyone doing now that the old SP20 is now defunct?
What's the closest in sound and price?
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Honkin On Bobo
1293 posts
Nov 22, 2014
5:45 AM
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When did this happen? I just googled Hohner Special 20 and perused the first dozen or so hits and I didn't see anything about the Special 20 being discontinued, in fact what I saw were ads for....Special 20s. What am I missing?
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Goldbrick
778 posts
Nov 22, 2014
6:14 AM
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I think he means the " new " special 20's with the progressive engraving on coverplates .
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HarpNinja
3981 posts
Nov 22, 2014
9:07 AM
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I plan on playing SP20 with the new covers.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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Leatherlips
304 posts
Nov 22, 2014
11:00 AM
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Yeah, I should have been more specific.
Apparently, there have been changes which have not been well received by many SP20 users.
I haven't had cause to buy a new one yet, but I'm wondering what else is out there that has the same sound and durability for the same price.
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Steve Harvell
173 posts
Nov 22, 2014
12:50 PM
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Hi Leatherlips, what have the issues been that players are having? I brought one of the new "Progressive" Special 20 harps in the key of B a couple of weeks ago and it plays fine to me and I have a whole set of the older type and it seems up to snuff, but I am old school player and may not use some of the newer techniques like you guys :)
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florida-trader
559 posts
Nov 23, 2014
9:31 AM
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I don’t know much about the details of the new and improved Special 20. I might be the same as the old Special 20 only with new covers or it might be an upgrade in some other ways. Say what you want about the quality of Hohner harmonicas. We all know that over the years the quality has gone back and forth. However, in recent years the consensus is that the quality has been very good. To me, that is a mind-set. It is not a coincidence. More than likely it is as a result of the competition Hohner faces from other quality manufacturers such as Seydel, Suzuki and Lee Oskar. Look at the Marine Band for example. For over 100 years Marine Bands have been assembled with nails and unsealed combs. What are the most commonly performed “customizations” on Marine Bands? Replace the nails with screws and seal the comb. So what did Hohner do to A)accommodate the harp community; and B) compete with the customizers? They came out with the Marine Band Deluxe in 2005. And then in 2009 they came out with the Marine Band Crossover with an upgraded Bamboo comb and a different tuning. More recently, they introduced The Rocket which is souped up version of the Special 20. What are the most common “upgrades” performed by Special 20 devotees? Opening the backs of the covers and cutting vents in the sides. So in developing The Rocket, Hohner simply listened to what the market wanted. They replaced the 2.0 mm screws with the same 1.6 mm screws they use on every other harp and they eliminated the nut and bolt cover screws in favor of the binding screws used on MBD’s, Crossovers and the MS-Series harps. Lastly, because some guys like using Marine Band covers on their Special 20’s they came out with a new comb which is slightly more contoured and modular in design so you can use Rocket covers, traditional Special 20 covers or Marine Band covers.
Historically, Hohner has been a master marketing company. They took the basic design of the Marine Band 1896 and using different covers created 100’s of different harps. The pre-MS Blues Harp and the Herb Schreiner Hoosier Boy comes to mind but there were many many more. It is all about packaging and creating an incentive for people to buy something different. Under the hood, they are all Marine Bands. Seydel does the same thing with the Session Steel simply by changing the color of the ABS comb. And every Suzuki diatonic is has either ProMaster or Manji reed plates with different covers (Hammond, Olive, etc.)
My guess is that the change in cover plate design in the Special 20 is something that Hohner thinks is long overdue. The Special 20 was introduced in the 1970’s. They were originally made with pins which long ago were replaced by screws but to the best of my knowledge the covers have not changed at all. In a recent thread it was mentioned that moving forward, all the new Special 20 reed plates will use 1.6mm screws instead of the 2.0mm screws they’ve been using for 40+ years. And it stands to reason that any improvements they have made in reed plate tolerances will be consistent across the board with all of their professional line of harmonicas (Blues Band and Hot Metal excluded).
And lastly, even if the new Special 20 is completely different from the old Special 20, there are 1000’s of the old Special 20’s still available. The Cross Harp and others have been discontinued models for years but can still be found. So my guess is that anyone who really wants them will be able to find classic Special 20’s for years to come. No need to panic.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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SuperBee
2274 posts
Nov 23, 2014
8:01 PM
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Sometime, mid 90s, the special 20 was an MS harp. I keep one as a memento. It's the first Hohner harp I bought when I decided to have a proper crack at learning to play. It was a difficult harp too, I had a couple Silvertone Deluxe Huang harps which were better to play in every way. That's why my MS Sp20 survived. I didn't play it much until I learned enough to set the gaps. Then I played it until it broke, and MP repaired it for me...now it's a monument to learning to play, learning to gap and the inspiration to mend broken harps...
But to the OP, I've seen complaints that the new sp20 is 'different' and apparently inferior in some way. I'm not buying that story yet. I really really doubt there is any decrease in quality v the old model. I'm not sure if there is a tuning change. I can understand people being upset if that's the case.
But, just as in the case of the short-livedMS sp 20 and marine band, I'd expect hohner to be sensitive to the market response.
Personally I'll be happy to see the end of the cover plate bolt and nut. Those things just annoy me.
If this change means people are more keen to have their old plates repaired though, it's ok with me.
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barbequebob
2765 posts
Nov 24, 2014
11:11 AM
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The MS version of the Special 20 was never issued here in the US at all, much like the MS version of the Marine Band (and being one of the players who got a chance to test out the prototype in 1991, as nearly all who tried it out, it was absolutey HATED by everyone in the US who tried it and so they never issued it in the US).
The very first batch of MS harps were all using short slot reeds and just flat out sucked big time.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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MP
3273 posts
Nov 24, 2014
1:36 PM
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Bob beat me to it. I probably got the info from him anyway but MS SP/20s were never issued in the US.
For a bit I was doing non US repairs and and saw MS 20s, an MS MB ( it looked like a Big River) and I think that's it.
Due to Bees 20 being an older MS harp it was difficult to get it playing top notch.
@ Bee- try lowering the zero points (Seydel had video of the process if -forgive me in advance- you don't know how to do it yourself. I suspect you do. I think sizing the reed slots may help also.
Only size if the harp sounds dull.
Cheers, good luck, and all that, see yah Bee. Mark
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I'm out of the Biz for a while till I get over my burnout. You can try HarveyHarp or arzajac, or just look the page nacoran put together under Forum Search.
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HarveyHarp
615 posts
Nov 24, 2014
9:18 PM
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I don't know what is going on, but it seems that everything I get in these days are Special 20s. Some for repair, some for customization. If you want a real treat, spend $49.95 and put one of Blue Moon's new set in combs on one. I am particularly fond of the Aluminun ones.
And yes, I get burnt out too. But, just do some work on your own harps, and then you will get interested in it again.
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HarveyHarp
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A440
249 posts
Nov 25, 2014
5:34 AM
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back to the question posted by @Leatherlips... the SP20 is alive and well. Hohner changed the graphics on the covers to align with their new marketing concept of "Progressive". And they went to the smaller 1.6mm screws mounting the reedplates to comb - now consistent with the Rocket. Otherwise, its still the good old SP20. The one I bought recently plays fantasically OOTB.
Now if Hohner could only extend the key selection a bit, adding LF and HG... which Suzuki does on many of their models...
Last Edited by A440 on Nov 25, 2014 5:37 AM
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HarpNinja
3982 posts
Nov 25, 2014
7:19 AM
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The last few SP20's I've received haven't been as consistent as what I had been seeing. I am talking that last half dozen or so. The reeds have been misaligned and I've had issues with the reeds being riveted too far back.
These are the now "old" SP20's and not the Progressive version. The Progressive version uses the Rocket reedplates and in the dozen or so of those I've looked at, I haven't noted the same concern.
My point is I love the SP20, and as awesome as Hohner harps have been the last 4 years or so, came across some not so hot ones. I am optimistic that the SP20 Progressive will have the same quality of design as the Rocket has.
My only knock on the Rocket was that stock gapping in the first run. They were gapped way too high for me, which is an easy fix. I also prefer the SP20 covers and comb as the profile is narrower than the Rocket.
If the SP20 went extinct - WHICH IT IS NOT - I'd be fine playing Rockets instead. That being said, long live the SP20!!!
Is there a way to tell from the retail box if it is the new Progressive version and not old stock? A store in town has a pretty good supply of SP20's and tends to go through them fast enough that it wouldnt' shock me that they had the Progressive version at hand.
I just want to make sure when I open it, it is the new design. Thanks!
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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barbequebob
2767 posts
Nov 25, 2014
10:09 AM
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@MP -- The Big Rivers are actually the MS Marine Band with a different engraving on the top cover plate and a plastic comb and if you exchanged the plastic comb for the doussie wood comb used on the MS Blues Harp, you actually have the MS Marine Band.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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A440
254 posts
Nov 25, 2014
10:16 AM
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@HarpNinja - I do not believe it is possible to know which version it is by looking at the outer retail packaging, as Hohner has been shipping the older model in the new package for several months. But if you can see the grey plastic box: the old models have yellow key stickers and the new ones have white key stickers.
Last Edited by A440 on Nov 25, 2014 10:17 AM
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Leatherlips
305 posts
Nov 30, 2014
9:54 PM
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may be able to sum up what I'm trying to say.
It's Official the Hohner Special-20 is dead, lost it's soul has no true voice of it's own, SAD DAYS INDEED : (
No I won't listen to sales reps or Hohner marketing staff or any person who has not had a long lasting relationship with this instrument that say they have only changed the cover plates, Point Blank if you have never played this instrument as your main Harmonica for many years or own one I won't listen, the pictures Below show they have also replaced the Original SPECIAL-20 reed plate top picture, with the New ROCKET PROGRESSIVE middle picture,
The new SPCIAL-20 PROGRESSIVE bottom picture as I see is the same reed plate as the SP-20PRO.
It's the extra holes to retro fit different cover plates to the rocket comb that have changed the tone you can use the same reeds & tune to the same 442 but it's the reed plate base with the extra holes that wrecked a Good Harmonica.
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SuperBee
2276 posts
Nov 30, 2014
11:03 PM
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interesting idea...anyone buy this? i've played a lot of sp20s but not the new one. i had some harps made with 1896 plates on sp20 combs and covers...sounded like sp20s to me...had new drillings to fit the plates to combs.
i drill 1896 plates, fit new combs...they still sound like 1896s
biggest difference i ever noted was in an old pre-ms blues harp fitted with 1896 covers. it sounded like an 1896.
EDIT: what i mean is that i expect the impact of the extra holes on tone would be around 3/5 of 5/8
Last Edited by SuperBee on Nov 30, 2014 11:15 PM
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mastercaster
101 posts
Dec 01, 2014
4:18 AM
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Sad days indeed ..
if in fact the new SP20's have a noticeably different 'tone' ... they are about all I've played since their introduction way back when .. 30+ years ago ...
Last Edited by mastercaster on Dec 01, 2014 4:21 AM
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HarpNinja
3985 posts
Dec 02, 2014
6:26 AM
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Both Joe Spiers and Steve Baker have commented on the web about the changes being a non-issue, and I am inclined to believe both of them, even blindly, on this issue.
There hasn't been a change that should impact the playability or tone of the Special 20 Progressive negatively.
IMHO, any changes in performance or tone of a Hohner are from the brass and would be consistent (probably) between all handmade models.
And, since they are handmade and mass produced, it should be assumed there will be some variance. At the end of the day, I think the majority of praise and complaint about a harp's performance and tone are relative to the stock gapping and tuning.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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jiceblues
337 posts
Dec 02, 2014
9:17 AM
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I agree with you , Mike, gapping &tuning changs a lot performance and tone on a harp .
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SuperBee
2277 posts
Dec 03, 2014
2:33 AM
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Oddly enough, this 'controversy' is gonna lead me to purchase a new Sp20. I'm willing to bet the price that I don't have any problem, or notice any difference. Might get a Rocket while I'm at it
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