agingbuffoon
1 post
Oct 18, 2014
8:22 PM
|
I have recently begun expanding my harp collection and as Lee Sankey suggested
in one of his videos I am using the different keys I need to get as a chance to try out different harmonicas. I am hoping to try a suzuki and a seydel next and was hoping someone could suggest a good suzuki and seydel harp to buy.
I am still sort of a beginner and understand that the holes on some of the seydels are different and easier for a beginner could you tell me which ones those are?
Thanks
|
SuperBee
2229 posts
Oct 18, 2014
9:46 PM
|
gooday and welcome agingbuffoon. i believe all the seydel models have slightly larger chambers. doesnt make a lot of difference imho, but of course you have to try for yourself.
ive only played seydel solist pro and (brass) sessions. i liked them both enough, apart from the moustache-grabbing covers on the solist pro... enough to shell out on an 1847 silver...its still in the mail.
solist Pro and session are pretty good value i think. ive been resisting paying for an 1847 for several years, but needed a Lo F urgently and this was already in the country. i could have got another session, and chose not to, maybe that says something..."more money than sense" probably
suzuki...lot of folks like the harpmaster..my personal experience with manji was pretty good. i havent tried that may though
|
Kingley
3736 posts
Oct 19, 2014
12:53 AM
|
Many people seem to really like the Seydel 1847. The Seydel Solist Pro and the Session are both good harps too. The Suzuki Manji, Hammond HA20, MR350 and the Harpmaster are also good harps.
The 1847 is probably the most expensive of that bunch. I'd say buy whatever is in your price range and try them out. I don't think any of them are harder to play in particular than any other. Over time you'll probably find you lean more towards one model/brand over others as most players tend too.
|
A440
227 posts
Oct 19, 2014
8:45 AM
|
You can't go wrong with:
Seydel: Solist Pro or Session Steel
Suzuki: Hammond/Promaster or Manji/Olive
The Seydel hole spacing is a bit wider. It might take some time to adjust, but actually, I find them easier to play - it's easier to get a clean single note compared to a Suzuki or Hohner with smaller holes. The disadvantage is that you cannot move as quickly up and down the harp on fast runs. But honestly, the difference is small.
Trying different harps will help develop your playing skills. If you find one harp that is easier for you to bend, play dynamically (soft and loud), or achieve good tone with, then you will advance your playing more quickly.
|
mlefree
202 posts
Oct 19, 2014
9:40 AM
|
In addition to my self-customized sets of Marine Band 1896s, Special 20s and Hering 1924s, I have a full set of 12 Suzuki Promasters that I half-valved under the tutelage of PT hisse'f.
Each set of my diatonics has its own purpose for me; various temperaments and musical applications. I just took my Promasters to a country/gospel jam circle because I believe that, in addition to being nearly equal tuned so that they play well with other instruments, their aluminum combs allow them to be a bit brighter and a bit louder, making them "cut" well in an acoustic setting in a large room. Not least, the Suzukis are so air-tight that I never had to do anything to them besides gapping the reeds.
These factors make my Promasters a joy to play. One additional plus -- I'm admittedly a gentle player, but I've played the Suzukis a lot over the 9-10 years that I've had them.
I see complaints about those aluminum combs not being flat or airtight, but my Promasters are as tight as some of my Hohner harps that I've embossed heavily as well as flat sanded combs and draw reed plates. Maybe my more vintage set was manufactured more carefully than more recent ones? I don't have the answer to that, so I am left judging Suzuki Promasters based on my own experience which has been very satisfying indeed.
Good luck,
Michelle
----------
SilverWingLeather.com
email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
|
agingbuffoon
2 posts
Oct 19, 2014
1:47 PM
|
Wow thanks for all the help guys. I didn't expect such a response this quick.
By the way one other quick question:
I don't know much about working on a harmonica, what are some easy and basic customizing/servicing things I can do to make my new harps sound and play a little better?
|
BluesBrother
15 posts
Oct 19, 2014
1:48 PM
|
I enjoy playing Seydel 1847 Silver, the Session Steel and the Solist Pro. They all have a great clear sound and seem to be made of pretty decent quality. Generally not a big fan of Suzuki harmonicas, although the Manji is quite okay.
|
SuperBee
2233 posts
Oct 19, 2014
2:09 PM
|
imho, number 1 thing for playability is gapping. for sound, in terms of working on the harp, number 1 is tuning.
you can easily ruin harps doing basic and easy work, so take it steady. breaking a harp can jump-start your journey into learning about repairs. says the voice of experience...
|
jackleg
23 posts
Oct 19, 2014
2:31 PM
|
suzuki bluesmaster is the harp you want!!! buy ebay and don't pay more than $15.....
|
rainman
145 posts
Oct 19, 2014
6:02 PM
|
The Session Steel is a great harp plays similar to a Special 20 but I prefer the steel. Has the low C,D,E available as well which might be something you would enjoy adding to your collection.
|
Chris L
67 posts
Oct 19, 2014
9:37 PM
|
Hi A-B,
I am a fan of the Bluesmaster/ Harpmaster models. The only difference is the shape of the cover-plates, so if you want to try something different from Hohner, go Bluesmaster. I also have a Manji, Promaster, and Overdrive. But for a relative beginner, I recommend Bluesmaster. Suzuki uses a tuning system very close to Equal temperament (the way a piano is tuned)so it will be a learning experience to compare the way it sounds with Hohner instruments which are typically tuned closer to Just Intonation (true harmonic intervals).
Regarding optimizing your harps, if you are really ready to go down that rabbit hole, just click on the Andrew Zajac advertisement at the bottom of the home page of the forum, and scroll through arzajac's blog. He lists the Five most accessible improvements for beginners. Probably the most important for me early on was gapping because good gapping makes bending, esp. holes 2-3 and 10 MUCH easier. After that, tuning! But here is the thing about tuning new harps: On this site you will read that most new/OOB (out of the Box)harmonicas are poorly tuned. That is true, BUT for the most part the tuning is off only by a few cents (100ths of a semitone)so negligible amounts compared with the effect of technique on intonation. You can usually play a new harp for months before getting serious tuning issues. If you have a new harp seriously out of tune, return it for a replacement! That being said, a really well tuned harmonica is a joy to play.
Anyhow, that is my 2cents worth! Welcome to the forum and enjoy!
|
garryfernand
8 posts
Oct 19, 2014
10:29 PM
|
I personally like to have a seydel harmonica. SEYDEL Session Diatonic harmonica is best for a serious beginner. At Honkin Harmonica shop you can buy this at £25.99.
|
Bryan A
9 posts
Oct 20, 2014
2:22 PM
|
cheap not so common keys of various suzuki models at this link, I bought a couple of their Pure models, bluesmaster and a promaster to complete my harp set.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aag/main?ie=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=0&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=115-8292985-8777064&seller=A11ZDAI3P9XKOB
JUST AN FYI, all the harps I've received from there have been brand new and in good shape
|
bonedog569
926 posts
Oct 20, 2014
4:42 PM
|
My current fave harps:
1) 1847 - this is the 'Cadillic' of harps IMO. A little bigger - maybe a little slower to get around on for some people (Jason Ricci's opinion).
I love the tone build quality and consistency - though not all OOTB (out of the box) harps - even $100 1847's, are created equally.
2) Suzuki Hammond
3) Suzuki Manji
ootb quality pretty good on both of these , but there is some variation.
They each have different tone and feel to them.
4) Suzuki Bluesmaster. A great harp and a bargain compared to the above, - IF you do not overblow. If I didn't start using OB's, I'd still be using this harp.
5) Suzuki folkmaster - similar to Bluesmaster but in a MB style sandwich
- The Bluesmaster is more like an SP20, - as is the hammond. Manji like the MBand or Crossover.
Last Edited by bonedog569 on Oct 20, 2014 4:43 PM
|
agingbuffoon
3 posts
Oct 22, 2014
3:16 PM
|
Again, thanks for all the help. Can't believe how friendly everyone here is.
|
SuperBee
2242 posts
Oct 22, 2014
4:11 PM
|
i took delivery of an 1847 Silver yesterday.
first time i've used one
this is a Lo F. not exactly an extreme key, but definitely the key is a factor to bear in mind...its on the cusp of standard
overall i'm happy, but i expected a little better. my expectation may not be reasonable of course.
the good points...
its in tune. octave splits sound good. although the 1-4 blow split is set for quite hard play..harder than i usually would hit it, but not too much.
the 6OB is right there
the blow bends are all easy.
with a couple exceptions, the harp plays very well from end to end, including all standard bends and 6 OB
i thought the SS reeds may feel different, but id never notice if i didnt know.
the 'couple exceptions': the 1 draw bend (to pitch) is more difficult than my LoF Thunderbird, but achievable. about the same as my brass session. id hoped it would be a little tighter.
the 1 draw was slightly misaligned. ive had this issue on 3 seydel harps now. an Ab and 2 Lo Fs. the standard F and Eb solist pro harps i had were fine in this regard. i understand the longer reeds on low harps are more prone to this.the 2 draw also hits the slot sometimes.
the 3 draw was a little slow. really, just a tiny hesitation.
im not a big fan of the action on the 1 draw reed. its got a real pot belly, which pretty much sits in the slot at rest. the reed is so thick though, i'm not inclined to try reshape it, and it works well-enough. im leaving well enough alone.
so, im pretty happy with how it plays. and it sounds better than the Thunderbird to me, for what i want to play with it, which is swinging jazz standards. to that end i retuned the 5 draw to B.
i had to sand the reedplate leading-edge corners. they had vicious sharps that would snag cloth, and i expect would cut skin. ive never had an issue with brass plates..i know many people sand the brass plates as a matter of course but ive never had a problem. these plates though had definite cutting edges.
the leading edges of the cover plates were note straight either. both had a small kink just before the corner..about where they sit over the middle of the 1st chamber. i had to straighten these to make them sit in the slot.
i found these issues of finish a little disappointing. also the surface of the polymer comb is rather pitted. (but the harp plays ok). there was quite a scatter of tiny metal fragments on the comb, presumably from a failure to perfectly clean the reed plates before assembly.
the blow plate was noticeably bowed end to end (middle raised as it sits on comb). when assembled with bolts it seems to sit completely flat on the comb..so big deal i guess.
so, in a nutshell...plays well,sounds good
could be finished better, but its a handmade, mass-produced product so there are bound to be variations. and its travelled a long way to get to me.
for the rest, that is, how i feel about stainless steel..i'll just have to wait and see
|
mlefree
210 posts
Oct 25, 2014
10:08 AM
|
I'm with you SuperBee. I tried an 1847 Silver with Favorite cover plates. I was so excited about it as it as Rupert retune it to equal temperament for me and put the special covers on it. I asked PT to half-valve it hisse'f, which he kindly did. On my fixed income, a $100 harp with all that effort behind it was a real leap of faith for me.
Then I played it.
It felt, well, very, very tight and an unwilling participant in my trying to make music with it. In particular the two draw just would not cooperate and the one draw was only slightly more forgiving.
So I tried my best to adjust the reeds. I found the SS reeds to be very, very difficult to work on. Simple things like adjusting the gaps became a very tenuous proposition. A reed would not, would not, would not bend and then it would, too much. You enter a completely different world when you crack those 1847 cover plates open. If I could work on those reeds with any degree of competence and confidence it might be a different deal. But I have never been able to get it to the point where I liked playing it.
I'll give someone a good deal on it. I'm sticking with brass or phosphor bronze reeds, thank you very much.
Michelle
----------
SilverWingLeather.com
email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
|
