Frank
5195 posts
Sep 01, 2014
7:11 AM
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It seems the best frontmen have earned the utmost respect of the band...
How important is the front-man to the success of the unit finding that sacred musical sanctuary where music is being played in it's purist form?
Check out Kim at about 20 min 45 secs onward doing a Sonny 2 song - he not only has the band convinced to follow him to hell and back - the audience is in the palm of his hand and willing to go too :)
Mind you Kim has done this a million times, but still can summons the freshness in spirit that the band and audience is longing to connect with!
Last Edited by Frank on Sep 01, 2014 7:21 AM
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The Black Pit
22 posts
Sep 01, 2014
12:57 PM
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Agreed. I always admired Kim's ability as a front man, going back to the early T-Birds stuff. He's got the vocal chops, the personality and of course that monster tone. I must've watched the "Can't Stop Rockin" video a thousand times and still can't get enough of it.
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"The blues are the roots of all American music. As long as American music survives, so will the blues."...Willie Dixon
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didjcripey
807 posts
Sep 01, 2014
10:38 PM
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Frontman (or woman) is paramount. If the frontman sucks, the band sucks; if the band sucks its the frontman who looks bad. The role of the band is to support the frontman; its all about him (or her).
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Lucky Lester
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Komuso
387 posts
Sep 02, 2014
2:45 AM
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>>The role of the band is to support the frontman; its all about him (or her)
huh?
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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Frank
5198 posts
Sep 02, 2014
4:11 AM
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didjcripey
808 posts
Sep 02, 2014
10:08 PM
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@Komuso; yep, I think the band is a team, and the goal of the team is to support the frontman. All the solos, the fills, everything should serve the music, (not the musicians egos) and as the frontman is the focus of the band, their job is to make him look and sound good.
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Lucky Lester
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Komuso
389 posts
Sep 02, 2014
10:48 PM
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Why does the frontman have to be the focus of the band?
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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didjcripey
809 posts
Sep 03, 2014
12:53 AM
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Well I guess he doesn't have to be if you are doing instrumentals, but if you are doing songs, especially blues songs which have lyrics and meaning, I think that the important aspect is the emotions expressed, and as they are primarily expressed by the frontman, it seems to me that he should be the focus. He is, after all, the FRONT man; he is in front, he leads the band, he makes or breaks it.
Show me a strong band with a weak frontman.
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Lucky Lester
Last Edited by didjcripey on Sep 03, 2014 1:15 AM
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Komuso
390 posts
Sep 03, 2014
1:58 AM
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That whole frontman/sideman thing is just one way of presenting a band, and who's to say it's "the best way" or the only way?
A great band is more than the sum of the parts.
The Frontperson (or Frontman or Frontwoman) is just one potential focal point, especially in a band of great players that don't just do the tired old one song where everyone gets a solo bit in the spotlight thing.
Duo's and Trio's especially know this.
Hound Dog Taylor and the Houserockers
to
ZZ Top
to
the Sex Pistols
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Sep 03, 2014 3:24 AM
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Frank
5205 posts
Sep 03, 2014
3:40 AM
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Komuso
391 posts
Sep 03, 2014
4:38 AM
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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Frank
5210 posts
Sep 03, 2014
3:54 PM
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Komuso
392 posts
Sep 03, 2014
6:40 PM
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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BigBlindRay
236 posts
Sep 03, 2014
7:52 PM
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@Komuso
The primary reason why the frontman/woman is the most important aspect is because this person plays the only instrument made of flesh and blood - the voice.
The human voice is what people connect with at the most intimate level. Great musicians understand that this aspect needs to be supported (in the event where the band has a lead singer)
There is a beauty in a lead being a singer and playing Harp as it is arguably the closest extension of the human voice. There is a real beauty when it is delivered well with a band who supports it 100%
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Big Blind Ray Trio Website
Big Blind Ray Trio Facebook Page
Big Blind Ray Trio on Bandcamp
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Komuso
393 posts
Sep 03, 2014
9:41 PM
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I'm just going to sound like a broken record, but let me repeat myself:
That whole frontman/sideman thing is just one way of presenting a band, and who's to say it's "the best way" or the only way?
A great band is more than the sum of the parts.
The Frontperson (or Frontman or Frontwoman) is just one potential focal point, especially in a band of great players that don't just do the tired old one song where everyone gets a solo bit in the spotlight thing.
Duo's and Trio's especially know this.
Hound Dog Taylor and the Houserockers
to
ZZ Top
I'm not saying front(wo)man doesn't work (it obviously does), I'm saying it's not the only way.
What I find strange is people saying it's the only way, when you don't have to go far to see it's not.
I'm guessing the hard core defenders are frontmen?
Maybe it's just me. Personally the greatest joy I get out of watching bands is the interaction between all the musicians, especially when they take off in flight.
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Sep 03, 2014 9:44 PM
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Michael Rubin
939 posts
Sep 03, 2014
9:43 PM
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I'm with Komuso. BigBlindRay and others in agreement with him, you've agreed upon a paradigm that is limiting. I love the kind of bands that you are talking about and I've agreed to be in many of them. But I most love bands where everyone is shining as a group. I also have many records where the singer is definitely supporting the instrumentalists. Even in modern blues harmonica, consider the Dennis Gruenling/ Doug Deming situation. Who's backing who?
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didjcripey
810 posts
Sep 03, 2014
11:00 PM
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@komuso I don't think I said this was the only way, but simply expressed an opinion. I'd also consider myself a 'hardcore defender' of the front person, and am most definitely only a sideman, in awe of the difficulty and responsibility of the front person.
A great band is more than the sum of its parts, absolutely. In my opinion, great bands work best when the team is playing to support the front, rather than trying to upstage them. Interaction is a vital part of the process, and the best frontmen work as part of the team leaving space for each member to shine (as in the James Hartman clip you posted). But ultimately the goal of the team should be to lay out a magic carpet for the frontman to do his stuff.
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Lucky Lester
Last Edited by didjcripey on Sep 03, 2014 11:09 PM
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BigBlindRay
237 posts
Sep 03, 2014
11:23 PM
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@Komuso - There isn't an "only way" to any "thing"
However some ways tend to work better than others and that ultimately comes down to a matter of opinion.
It is undeniable however that singers/front person plays the most vital role of a band and that is to connect with the audience.
Reality is that great instrumentalists will never top a great singer. I just had a glance at the top 10 songs in the billboard and itunes chart for this week and (surprise) there isn't a single instrumentalist in there. Now why is that?
This isn't to negate or downplay the role of instrumentalists in any way - nor do I disagree that the whole is greater than the sum of its part - I'm very much in that camp. But it is undeniable that if you play in a band where you have a lead vocalist, that that persons job is to act as conduit to connect the audience with the band. Hence many musicians will put up with a singer in spite of lack of musical knowledge if that person is masterful at creating the connection.
Its like a football team, Yanks have Quarterbacks, Soccer has Strikers, Rugby League have Props. A band is no different. There are clear and definable roles within one, sometimes it might blur but mostly they remain pretty clear. In music, I believe our goal is to connect with people.
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Komuso
394 posts
Sep 04, 2014
12:49 AM
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@didjcripey
"and the best frontmen work as part of the team leaving space for each member to shine (as in the James Hartman clip you posted)."
The very first thing that struck me about James Harman band when I first heard them decades ago was "damn, that whole band is kickass". They might carry James's name but he exemplifies setting up interaction of great musicians and storytelling in a laid back style that a lot more could learn from. I don't see James Harman and Sidemen, I see A BAND. Look how Nathan and James are interacting, while the rhythm section groove it along.
Similar to Michael Rubin's point re: "Even in modern blues harmonica, consider the Dennis Gruenling/ Doug Deming situation. Who's backing who? "
@BigBlindRay
Billboard and iTunes are pop charts driven by the industry which uses singers as the primary marketing vehicle to sell whatever other crap it is they are trying to sell. That's how the pop industry rolls, hence why we get endless singer talent shows.
Even they pale beside the endless singer variety shows that you constantly get bombarded with here in Japan.
It's sales, not music per se, which is driving it.
If you want to talk about music the canvas for expression is so much broader.
>>Reality is that great instrumentalists will never top a great singer.
There's plenty of instrumentalists who can shoot that argument down, as well as singer/players doing double duty. Not to mention the huge and mostly instrumental EDM scene. It all depends entirely on the listeners mood and music needs at the time. It's entirely possible to enjoy both to the same level of emotional movement.
I don't disagree with anything you are saying about the human connection part of the voice (Etta James, Ella Fitzgerald, Concha Buika etc etc the list is endless ) but I'm with Michael re: Bands that "you've agreed upon a paradigm that is limiting"
The Beatles were not a frontman band, but a band.
Pink Floyd? ditto.
Queen? You could argue Freddie was the show, but also Brian May was as well.
The old blues barrelhouses and Juke Joints weren't frontman type shows generally afaik either. Some were no doubt (of which Bobby Rush is still carrying the torch) but a lot of others were just great parties with the local musicians getting up and jamming.
I think you're getting a few things mixed up actually.
There's showmanship (or showomanship?) and audience communication, which can be combined but can also be separated. It's not binary either, it's a continuum of experience that can be explored.
ZZ Top figured that out!
But sure, if you going the frontman route you better have a good one because it doesn't work otherwise!
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Sep 04, 2014 1:17 AM
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The Iceman
1999 posts
Sep 04, 2014
7:37 AM
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Has anyone else noticed that, in regards to a band with a great front man, many of them do leave the band and go solo?
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The Iceman
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Frank
5215 posts
Sep 04, 2014
8:40 AM
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dougharps
726 posts
Sep 04, 2014
8:40 AM
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We all enjoy bands with great front(wo)men. A good band may have other great musicians, but most songs rely upon song lyrics, vocal quality, delivery, and crowd engagement to have the most effective and enjoyable performance.
However, I don't think we should all quit bands that only have adequate front(wo)men. I think that the public will decide if a band is worth going out to hear. If no one comes, they won't be booked.
It is not necessary that all bands have great front(wo)men. Just listen to any of the many well known foundational blues songs with less than stellar vocals in the original version (not providing a list, just listen). Enjoyable music can be created with mediocre vocals, or even poor vocals, and sometimes average instrumental performances.
Bands usually do not start up with all the musicians and vocalists at top levels of performance. Sometimes bands and performers grow and improve, sometimes not. There is still room for mediocre bands to entertain the public with live music.
I would rather hear a middle level band live and enjoy the musical interaction in the moment than sit at home and listen to recordings of great performances, though I enjoy the great recordings for their inspiration.
Support live music, even with adequate performers!
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Doug S.
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harpdude61
2099 posts
Sep 04, 2014
10:38 AM
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Interesting topic.
In one sense I front my band. It carries my name, I'm front center, and I do most of the speaking. I dance thru the crowd playing my harp and having fun interacting with the people.
That said, I do not sing. My bassist, guitarist, and drummer sing pretty close to 1/3 each.
I like to tell people we have 4 frontmen.
Some people tell me they hear the band, but they see me. Not sure if that's good. lol
I guess the name of the band dictates frontman in a sense. No doubt Rick Estrin is a frontman. The band name says so.
Too bad a band like the Fabulous Thunderbirds has no frontman. HA!
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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Frank
5221 posts
Sep 05, 2014
6:16 PM
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This is the actual question posed :)
How important is the front-man to the success of the unit finding that sacred musical sanctuary where music is being played in it's purist form?
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Komuso
397 posts
Sep 05, 2014
8:01 PM
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>>How important is the front-man to the success of the unit finding that sacred musical sanctuary where music is being played in it's purist form?
I would say "not very" much, but it's entirely dependent on the musical unit that's been put together along with individual/group objectives along with current music business scene.
Why?
In "ye olde days" of not far ago it was very much about "The Band"
John, Paul, George, and Ringo
Mick, Keef, Bill, and Charlie
Hound Dog Taylor AND The Houserockers (not the Hound Dog Taylor Band)
Quintette du hot club de france
Nirvana
Morphine
etc etc
Inside this paradigm there were always name band leaders, soloists and singers, but even in the big big bands fronted by a name (like Duke Ellington) the name soloists were a featured draw, they were not just side(wo)men to make the front(wo)man shine brighter.
Then at some point there was a marketing shift to focus on the "front(wo)man" as the primary focus.
It is what it is I guess.
It works, but it's not the only way and it's certainly not "the best way" as you can quickly prove by a quick look at musical history. It's just "a way".
Evolving Media technology plays just as much a part as the individual & group ambitions + live performance technique on the choice of a bands presentation in going front(wo)man route over others.
eg:
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Sep 05, 2014 8:12 PM
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Komuso
398 posts
Sep 05, 2014
11:38 PM
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Then there's always the Frontdrummer!
The Mad Drummer
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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Frank
5235 posts
Sep 08, 2014
3:52 AM
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LYRICS:
??
Sick Trickly Lick and a Pick Flick.
Playing head to head in this game.
Once I'm done with you,
you won't be the same.
Mashing buttons is a lame-o trick.
Sick Tricky Lick and a Pick Flick.
I've got the high score cuz I'm the frontman.
I'll jam a phat riff and melt your face off.
Immortalize me.
I'm the frontman.
He's the frontman.
Obsessed with being gamer number one.
No time to sit around and suck a thumb.
Let's go.
Let's get it on.
What makes you tick?
Sick Tricky Lick and a Pick Flick.
I've got the high score cuz I'm the front man.
I'll jam a phat riff and melt your face off.
Immortalize me.
I'm the frontman.
He's the frontman.
Sick Trickly Lick and a Pick Flick.
Sick Tricky Lick and a Pick Flick. ??
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