John95683
184 posts
Aug 26, 2014
10:14 PM
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Assuming regular practice, about how long did it take you to become a solid intermediate player? I've been playing for about four years now, and I seem to have hit a wall. I'm starting to wonder what it's going to take to get me off the hump and back on an upward learning curve. The game of golf has some similarities. You can get stuck at a certain handicap level, and more practice doesn't seem to do much good. Maybe you'll get better, but maybe you've peaked, and that's as good as it gets. Depressing thought right now.
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Ted Burke
131 posts
Aug 26, 2014
10:23 PM
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You're going to hit plateaus as you practice, play, develop as a player. Sometimes it'll seem that you're playing the same thing over and over again; I relate to that frustration. Sometimes it helps to put the harmonica down for a while and listen to music made by others for inspiration. In my case, I put on good jazz by the likes of Coltrane of Davis, Wayne Shorter and Art Blakey, solid players improvising on solid tunes. In any case, you pick it up again, find yourself frustrated until something clicks--a note you were trying to bend a certain way behaves the way you want it to, a quick, tricky phrase suddenly comes flowingly , you find the missing parts to a head arrangement you couldn't find before. You get the idea. All that practice and getting to know where the notes are and what to do with them avails you to things you thought you'd be able to do. You are able to develop a solo, with a beginning, middle and end. Things start coming to you quickly, much faster than before. But you have to keep the faith and stay with the instrument.
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ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.com
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JInx
863 posts
Aug 26, 2014
10:34 PM
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don't be a dreamer, if it don't come easy it aint ever gonna come. at least not how you think it should.
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Gnarly
1100 posts
Aug 26, 2014
10:42 PM
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For me, "getting good" came from playing more--I had a gig where harmonica (in a rack) was encouraged (seemed like required).
At that point I started paying more attention to it's idiosyncracies.
I'm still not what y'all would call good, but I am good at what I know--that's what Harmonica John told me a couple of years ago.
And the virtues of guitar with harmonica (especially specialty tuned ones!) cannot be denied.
I play all the time now--OK, I play every day, at least a little--and of course, my daily tasks at Suzuki include Harmonica Repair (and talking to folks, I like that--1-800-854-1594, 8-5 Pacific, Tuesday Wedesday and Thursday), so that puts the harp in my mouth(usually a customer's harp).
Last Edited by Gnarly on Aug 26, 2014 10:43 PM
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KingoBad
1522 posts
Aug 26, 2014
10:45 PM
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Get a private lesson, or attend a harmonica seminar or something like that. There is nothing better than being there in person to help move you along.
Some guys can play as a pro in a couple years (yes we hate and admire them), and some guys make it to intermediate after 40 years of playing.
I do have to say that time in counts. You can have a very rigorous practice schedule and still not pick up what you will with a few extra years in.
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Danny
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Leatherlips
284 posts
Aug 26, 2014
11:49 PM
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Negativity aside AKA Jinx, I think what Ted says about putting it down for a while might be useful and also private tuition or group thing could be good for you.
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Slimharp
396 posts
Aug 27, 2014
7:33 AM
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About ten years ago I was stuck. I had picked up playing again after a few years of not playing. I had played pro for a long time previous to that, stopped and got a day job. Anyway after starting back up I found myself stuck.I found out about Jon Gindicks Jam Camp. I called Jon and got some details. I went. My playing level was above everybodys but stuck is stuck. the environment is relaxed and fun. One thing you will do is play, and play, and play - for 2.5 days. Jon has well known pros there teaching. Classes on harp customizing, different styles of playing, comping, small group lessons and live jams on stage. It was great and well worth the money. You will hear and play stuff that you forgot that you already knew. Guaranteed you will get unstuck.
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HarpNinja
3913 posts
Aug 27, 2014
7:46 AM
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I started in late 2002 and felt by 2008 I was solid. That doesn't mean professional or anything, but that I could hold my own (intermediate).
I practiced a solid amount, but not more than average. I was stuck from 2010 until about 2013, lol. I've broken a plateu since last summer for sure. I can hear it in recordings. I still have stuff I suck at that I don't really get much better at.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Rock Harmonica Lessons
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TetonJohn
212 posts
Aug 27, 2014
8:12 AM
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One possibility for getting off a plateau is to get into a new musical situation. For example, I played mostly blues, but was asked to join a local band that played, let's call it, Americana/Rock and/or whatever the band leader/song writer threw at us. Because I wanted to be successful in the new context, it forced me into new territory (off the plateau). My experience is just an example of finding a situation that requires something different of you.
Last Edited by TetonJohn on Aug 27, 2014 8:13 AM
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Pistolcat
688 posts
Aug 27, 2014
9:11 AM
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All sound advice here except for Jinx, but no one ever pay attention to what he says. He is somewhat of a tolerated troll. I have never seen him post anything remotely interesting or constructive, it's all whining.
Another advice can be to record yourself and listen to earlier recordings when hitting plateaus. You'll find that you ARE improving, it just doesn't feel like it.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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The Iceman
1955 posts
Aug 27, 2014
9:26 AM
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Get thee to an inspirational teacher (or a workshop/seminar).
If you are a lick based player (one that learns licks, learns licks, learns licks), one way off the plateau is to start to understand why these licks sound so good. In other words, get deeper behind the lick to understand musical line. A bit of theory helps as well as the aforementioned qualified teacher.
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The Iceman
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The Iceman
1956 posts
Aug 27, 2014
9:26 AM
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(duplicate post)
Last Edited by The Iceman on Aug 27, 2014 9:27 AM
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mlefree
170 posts
Aug 27, 2014
9:46 AM
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I'll assume you are a second position blues player...
My advice would be to learn some melodies. First, second or third positions will get you far. You will learn more about your instrument and your ability to play it. Pick a genre and study and learn half a dozen melodies.
You will thank me later. :)
Michelle
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SilverWingLeather.com
email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
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Buzadero
1209 posts
Aug 27, 2014
11:07 AM
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Hmm. Fascist. I never knew your political leanings until now.
John, I'm going to second Michelle's "learn a melody" advice. Learn some random tunes that are ingrained in your mind's ear. Play them over and over. At some point, there will be that intersection where the mindless repetition and seeming boredom cause you to drop in some experimental notes and techniques. Some of these test notes will work and you'll feel a light bulb over your head. Soon, you'll gain comfort in drifting off the straight up melody and begin to string more and more spice together. Same tune, over and over and over.
That zip code is in RC?
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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John95683
185 posts
Aug 27, 2014
11:16 AM
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I do know a fair amount of melodies, and while they are not great, at least they are recognizable by most people. Occasionally, I play in coffee shops where people seem to like what I'm doing. Pretty simple first position stuff. It's playing the blues, especially with other players, that I'm struggling. Maybe the answer is to know my limitations, and stick to the melodies.
Buzadero, the zip is Rancho Murieta, just outside Sacramento.
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Michael Rubin
932 posts
Aug 27, 2014
11:26 AM
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I was a teenager in the beginning so I had a mind like a sponge and total obsession. Even with that, it took me 4 years before I was playing anything worthwhile.
Perhaps my foray into bass harp will be more helpful. I spent 4 years amazed at how hard the thing is and wondering if I would ever learn it. Then I joined a band (not a harmonica band) as the bass player. Within a year I was pro level. So, although I certainly recommend a good teacher (I give Skype lessons) and melodies, my biggest recommendation is join a band.
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STME58
1046 posts
Aug 27, 2014
11:27 AM
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Scales are the building blocks of melodies. I have found that practicing scales helps to be able to play a melody.Major scales are the first most people learn and a lot of melodies are built on them.
Learning the blues scale really helped me to improvise in a blues setting. This was true for both my trombone and harmonica playing. Scales and scale patterns are great tools to have down well, especially if you want to improvise.
There is nothing like having an instructor to help you with what you need to work on and to hold you accountable for working on it to get you off the plateau.
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bluemoose
996 posts
Aug 27, 2014
11:28 AM
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8 to 10 years.
No better melodies than Hank. Check this out.
Sea Sick Steve
Play along in D, first pos and then second position G. Dig into those bends. Play it clean and then play it dirty.
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ha...once again, captcha I own you!!!
MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
Last Edited by bluemoose on Aug 27, 2014 1:49 PM
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DannyRanch
7 posts
Aug 27, 2014
11:45 AM
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Hahaha!
"bile-spewing overlord with fascist tendencies."
I will definitely will save that!
Back to topic, that situation is really frustating, but as Gindik said once "Frustration is the signal you get before moving on a new level" or something like that I don't know.
There are a lot of approaches to break it up, as for example a guy mentioned he took phrasing lessons with a sax player, thats an incredible idea.
I always play with a percussionist that plays incredible well the washboard, and it helps me to play as an accompaniment "Sonny Terry" wanna be style and I find it really helpful when you are on those improvisation situations to pay attention to the licks you play in order to don't repeat them twice on the session which is a big challenge.
Also changing positions is a good idea, or trying to imitate other instrument/ musical styles as what I'm doing now, I'm approaching banjo rolls and it has been opening me for up new ideas.
And when I return to play with jam tracks I find myself playing new stuff instead of recycling licks.
Playing with others is the key, my recommendation is always seek for other musicians above your musical level
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Pistolcat
689 posts
Aug 27, 2014
1:23 PM
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Ah, 'tolerable troll' is indeed crossing the line and probably not true. Let me rephrase that somewhat: "John95683- You should not make too much of what jinx may post he or she so often is on the negative side it's hard to know if they have any bearings to the topics they are posted in. In my personal opinion. My own posts can, on the other hand, be a bit over to the positive side of "truth" as I like playing harmonica and the playing of harmonica by others make me joyful and too positive. I have found that the most honest "truth" on this forum can be had from The Iceman but that is also just an opinion of mine.
Sorry, Jinx!
Now, please, let this thread go back on topic.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
Last Edited by Pistolcat on Aug 27, 2014 1:57 PM
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BronzeWailer
1414 posts
Aug 27, 2014
1:53 PM
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Lots of sound advice above.
John, you said you play at coffee shops sometimes. Do you have a guitarist or other musical partner(s)? Have you tried busking? I am a big advocate of it. I started way before I was remotely qualified. In my mind, I like to think that I may get 1% better each time I go out. If you tough it out and push yourself, you may be surprised.
In general, I find that doing things a little before I feel ready helps me develop. I got asked to sit in with a bluegrass band from my busking activities, so I did this regularly for a while. It forced me to play different stuff which helped my playing immensely.
Do you sing? If not, have you considered lessons? This may open up possibilities as well.
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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