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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Backing tracks are the enemy ?
Backing tracks are the enemy ?
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Goldbrick
636 posts
Aug 24, 2014
9:11 AM
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I have noticed that vids with backing tracks tend to bring out a players worst habits. Because there is no real interaction , the harmonica becomes the sole weapon of choice to break the monotony. Often tho it just creates a fear of empty space and humans tend to fear a bit of space.
Just because there is a built in rhythm section doesnt mean you cant chug along and not perform endless solos
On a backing track , there is no one to say dial it back because you are stepping on other players.
Whether its harp, guitar, keyboard etc--you need to create variety in ways other than just more notes-dynamics , rhythm changes, tonal variation etc.
I guess because I am primarily a drummer , I am more sensitive -'cause everybody KNOWS when the drummer is too busy and are not shy about telling them about it
My favorite musician ( no, not Miles ) Tony Williams said when somebody says " its just my style" it means they are no longer interested in improving their skill set.
I am self taught and dont know Jack Shit about technical music but after 50 years of listening and playing- I think dependence on jams and backing tracks will kill your spirit
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Pistolcat
684 posts
Aug 24, 2014
9:36 AM
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As one of the backing track hobbyists here I just say: No shit. The OP is like saying intercourse is better than masturbation. No shit.
But, personally, I don't have time to go to jams that much. Not to mention joining a band if anyone would have me. My playing is between 22.00-23.30 after the kids and wife has gone to bed. I attend to harp meets twice a year with jams that are great fun but my weekends are pretty much booked otherwise.
So I use the next best thing: mast.... I mean backing tracks. I don't try to kid myself that I am fuc... Eh, making music, though.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
Last Edited by Pistolcat on Aug 24, 2014 9:38 AM
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Goldbrick
637 posts
Aug 24, 2014
9:46 AM
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As they say, a hand job is better than no job.
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Thievin' Heathen
380 posts
Aug 24, 2014
10:48 AM
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I have found that I like to use jam tracks after I have tuned or worked on a harp to give the reeds a workout, see if there is a barb somewhere, get the tuning settled in. It's slightly less monotonous the see-sawing up & down the harp.
It is good for me but I fail to find any reproductive type parallels in the activity.
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JInx
855 posts
Aug 24, 2014
11:05 AM
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Agree. Backing tracks can take the abuse a real band would never tolerate (unless you pay em}. They also seem to be fostering a sort of bizzaro world where guys are presenting "solo's" running for 5-10 minutes, thinking they are John Coltrane!
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Last Edited by JInx on Aug 24, 2014 11:06 AM
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walterharp
1496 posts
Aug 24, 2014
3:24 PM
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there are some high profile harmonica youtube posters that use backing tracks.. do so effectively and since they do not have a band, I am grateful for that bit of technology. you can probably figure out who i am thinking about
that said, I agree, but most of the people who put up 5 minutes of solo over backing track, I would not listen to happily for 5 minutes with a real band, even a great band. Not that I would get upset, just drink the beer and chat with friends at the bar.
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Joe_L
2508 posts
Aug 24, 2014
8:18 PM
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Aside from getting a person to put a harp in their mouth, I don't see a benefit to them. I think people would be better suited to playing along with records and attempting to recreate what they are hearing.
They might also learn about playing tastefully, learning how to play stuff that fits with a groove, teaches when silence can be beneficial to delivering a message and a bunch of other stuff.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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Jehosaphat
775 posts
Aug 24, 2014
9:19 PM
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Mmmmm..well i guess we are all different.Personally i think Jam tracks are the best thing since 'craft beer' became available.
These days my only outlet to actually play with 'live musicians' is a once a month jam and the occasional sit in,not much of a work out really.
I luv the act of putting on some Jam tracks and just blowing the shit outta my 5 Watt harp amp.It's pure fun.
And where else are you going to get a backing band willing (for example) to play a one chord tune in say D so you can just try endless riffs for the V chord (or the 1 in third etc)
But i agree in that putting up 4 minute backing tracks with endless noodling onto U tube can be a bit too much aimless harp in some cases.
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kudzurunner
4898 posts
Aug 25, 2014
5:05 AM
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Backing tracks have an extremely important function to play for developing players. When you're first learning how to work your way through the blues changes (or other changes--the Jamey Aebersold jazz backing tracks), you get a big long endlessly unrolling carpet of changes. So you can make mistakes, miss the changes, and keep right on trying to get it right. This is in marked contrast to the two-choruses-and-get-off element of live jam sessions.
And of course for certain pros, like Todd Parrott, PT Gazell, and Christelle (who I assume, without actually knowing, has by now played enough actual live gigs to be called a pro), backing tracks can provide a way of playing live, offering beautifully constructed solos, when one doesn't have a band along for the show.
But there's a downside to backing tracks. What they CAN'T teach, unless one deliberately works them this way, is what and when NOT to play. They can't teach pacing, and phrasing. They can't teach you how to interact dynamically with a band or another musician. They can't teach you how to pace an eight-chorus solo--unless you remain exquisitely conscious of how long you've been soloing, which few of us can--and they can't teach you how to know when enough is enough, which even jazz guys, who take long solos, learn how to do. In other words, Todd and PT, I'm quite sure, didn't LEARN how to play the beautiful solos they play over backing tracks....over those same backing tracks. They learned by playing live, with other musicians, over many years. Then later, they could take those live-action skills and make the backing-tracks thing work. (Christelle may be one of the very few contemporary players who seems to have done most of her learning with the help of backing tracks rather than live playing--or at least that's my general sense. I might be wrong. I think she does extremely well with backing tracks. Does she ever post videos of herself playing live, with a duo/trio or full band?)
In general, I think they're better for developing players, up to a certain level, than for more advanced players. But I've used Aebersold's tracks when I'm struggling through "St. Thomas". Of course, me playing jazz is an excellent example of a developing player!
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Aug 25, 2014 5:08 AM
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SuperBee
2169 posts
Aug 25, 2014
5:40 AM
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I don't know the full story but I know Christelle had classical training, on oboe iirc, so I expect she had live performance experience well before she began making harmonica videos using recorded backing.
And yes, I've seen video of Christelle performing with live bands in Australia and NZ
Last Edited by SuperBee on Aug 25, 2014 5:42 AM
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Steamrollin Stan
792 posts
Aug 25, 2014
5:49 AM
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Well they suit me fine, I'm a closet player and that's about it really :)
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CarlA
572 posts
Aug 25, 2014
6:29 AM
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@goldbrick
I would respectfully disagree that backing tracks bring out a players bad habits. Bad habits are bad habits, they will actually become MORE evident in live play situations.
Secondly, not everyone is or aspires to be a professional musician. Most on this board( I believe) would consider them self harmonica hobbyists at best, myself included.
Thirdly, it's ironic how the same 3-4 members that continually bitch about backing tracks are the same ones who will have an all-out sausage fest complimenting specific members who post a deep catalogue of YouTube vids played to backing tracks.
Fourth, sometimes I will throw a video of myself playing a tune to a backing track on YouTube not to get compliments, but in an attempt to positively contribute to the board and hopefully get other members who may be timid or less experienced to give it a go as well.
Fifth, backing tracks are just tools in the musical journey. I have yet to hear of anybody who threw away their hammer in the trash because their wife bought them an electric hammer drill.
Lastly, not everyone can commit to going out to a live jam routinely. Some have families, some have work constraints. Some members here are former alcoholics or drug users. Musical jams, etc would not be the wisest place for said individuals to be hanging-out.
So, in summary, if you don't like YouTube videos played to backing tracks, simply avoid watching them when they occasionally appear on this site. But, please have the decency and wherewithal to see the bigger picture and not have such a provincial attitude.
-Carl
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Goldbrick
640 posts
Aug 25, 2014
6:44 AM
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I believe if you actually read my post it said "Dependence" on backing tracks.
It can be a useful tool, but if all you got is a hammer everything looks like a nail to you
@ Carl No reason to get all uptight about it- I am not coming to your garage with the backing track Nazi's
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CarlA
573 posts
Aug 25, 2014
8:02 AM
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@goldbrick
Not uptight about it at all, just posting my opinion FWIW.
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The Iceman
1945 posts
Aug 25, 2014
8:18 AM
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backing tracks = useful tool.
Not be all or end all.
Amateur level - works just fine.
Step up to semi pro, and you gotta work w/real musicians in real time.
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The Iceman
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CarlA
574 posts
Aug 25, 2014
8:27 AM
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@iceman
Do professionals still have to practice, or is practice just for amateurs?
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CarlA
575 posts
Aug 25, 2014
8:35 AM
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@iceman
Who is going to tell Ronnie that according to your logic and some others that he has dropped from being a professional musician to a rank amateur because he used a backing track-lol
I guess 2.5 million viewers would disagree with you Sir
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The Iceman
1946 posts
Aug 25, 2014
9:01 AM
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Was talking about formative years.
Do professionals practice? Of course.
Pablo Casals (famous cellist/conductor) was asked a question in his late 80's.
Question: Do you still practice?
Pablo: yes
Question: why do you practice at your age and professional level?
Pablo: because I think I'm making progress
Professionals use backing tracks in performance. However, I venture to guess that they reached their level by also playing with real musicians in real time.
Thought the thread was about using backing tracks as a practice tool.
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Aug 25, 2014 9:02 AM
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Greg Heumann
2813 posts
Aug 25, 2014
9:13 AM
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I agree 100% with Adam and Iceman - backing tracks have their place as a learning/practicing tool. They are ABSOLUTELY NOT the same as playing live, and if one's goal is in fact to play live, there is no substitute for .... playing live. And I agree with Goldbrick about his initial premise.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
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CarlA
576 posts
Aug 25, 2014
9:37 AM
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I have learned a lot from this and other threads on MBH.
My conclusion is you get a lot of "great" information from a bunch of "great" musicians whom Sony BMG, Universal, EMI, and Warner Music are fighting over to sign up-lol
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mastercaster
64 posts
Aug 25, 2014
9:38 AM
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bt's are a great and useful tool to learn reed & breathing control , scales some chops .. timing maybe ..
However,
As performers, there are just too many subtleties to list when we are trying to work together as a group of 2 to ? folks, focused on entertaining the masses ... how could one learn stage presence , signals, when to build , lower , work the dynamics of a song etc. with a bt ? Bt's have no 'feeling' imo ..
So if someone is interested or is performing .. there are constant challenges, lessons to accept and build on our playing skill/style .. most semi or pro musicians Do Not stop practicing ... music is their life and livelihood ..
If someone's not willing, able, or interested in performing , but still motivated to play .. bt's are the cat's meow !
Last Edited by mastercaster on Aug 25, 2014 9:54 AM
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JInx
858 posts
Aug 25, 2014
11:34 AM
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Backing track buskers should be stoned.
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The Iceman
1949 posts
Aug 25, 2014
11:35 AM
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"Backing track buskers should be stoned."
Colorado Buskers are.
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The Iceman
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JInx
859 posts
Aug 25, 2014
11:38 AM
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lol
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Goldbrick
641 posts
Aug 25, 2014
11:52 AM
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Backing tracks in any live gig situation are just wrong.
My band lost a good gig to a "flamenco" with trax player who spent most of his time talking to the patrons and losing his place when he got back on the guitar.
They hired him because it was cheaper than paying a band.
He lost the gig too-- now they have open jams and pay no one.
Last Edited by Goldbrick on Aug 25, 2014 11:53 AM
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kudzurunner
4899 posts
Aug 25, 2014
12:28 PM
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"Who is going to tell Ronnie that according to your logic and some others that he has dropped from being a professional musician to a rank amateur because he used a backing track-lol. I guess 2.5 million viewers would disagree with you Sir"
CarlA, the Ronnie Shellist video you've posted above undercuts your point, and reaffirms my own earlier point.
Ronnie uploaded that video more than eight years ago, in 2006, when he was very much still a developing player, not the working pro he is now. Still, there's no evidence at all that Ronnie achieved the decent level of skill he shows in that video solely by playing along with jam tracks. I know--because Ronnie is a good friend and working partner of mine--that he'd put in a lot of time on the bandstand before that. And it's because he'd done that (which was precisely the point of my earlier post) that he was able to dance around so effectively with that backing track behind him.
That's the point here: not that there's anything intrinsically wrong with jam tracks or backing tracks. I don't think anybody here has claimed that. They're a learning aid, no question. They can even, as I noted, be an important adjunct to a professional performance. Todd Parrott exemplifies that way of using backing tracks. (He plays several other instruments and made his own backing tracks.) I sell jam tracks on this website. I recommend them to all beginners and intermediate players.
But they have drawbacks, too. They're not the be-all and end-all. A harmonica player who hopes to keep on improving needs to acknowledge this. Ronnie would be the first to agree with me. He's reached such a high level between 2006 and today because he played a LOT of live gigs, both band and duo. He didn't do it all with jam tracks. But because he's accrued all that onstage learning in the past eight years, he's able to make terrific music in the sandbox that jam tracks provide.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Aug 25, 2014 12:34 PM
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The Iceman
1951 posts
Aug 25, 2014
12:48 PM
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My first experience w/backing tracks on a professional level.
Went to see Queen at Ford Auditorium in Detroit in the 70's. Sat in middle of main floor right next to front of the house sound mixer.
Queen sounded pretty good, but I noticed there was more sound coming from the stage than from the 4 players up there. I looked over at the sound guy and he had a big reel to reel tape player rolling along w/all the backup tracks added to the concert stage.
I thought to myself "I could make this show grind to a halt if I reach over and yank that reel off the tape player".
Didn't like this aspect and left the concert 1/2 way through, giving my ticket to an eager groupie standing outside the box office.
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The Iceman
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Diggsblues
1508 posts
Aug 25, 2014
1:11 PM
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Jimi Lee has great backing tracks with lots of grooves
most players will not hear at jams. The tracks are really
great.
The Beach Boys way back had tracks in their live show.
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Greg Heumann
2815 posts
Aug 25, 2014
1:59 PM
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So did Milli Vanilli...
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
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smwoerner
261 posts
Aug 25, 2014
2:02 PM
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So, coming at this from another direction couldn't it be said that learning to competently play over backing tracks is a useful skill for a pro? I know many folks on this forum have gone into studios and added their talent over what is essentially a backing track.
I'm like Diggs in that I'm not a big fan of live acts using backing tracks. My reason for that is because I know I'm probably not going to hear anything really spontaneous due to the pre programed nature of the performance. I'd rather just by the recording, which may likely have been a series of instruments recorded separately over a base backing track.
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Purveyor of Optimized New and Refurbished Harmonicas.
scott@scottwoerner.com
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dougharps
720 posts
Aug 25, 2014
2:09 PM
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I think backing tracks are fine for practice, and if you are giving a demonstration of a song without a full backing band they are fine. I saw this at SPAH and HCH at times. They are even good for a group of harp students to "jam" to in a group, taking turns. Jimi Lee's grooves are great, because the band plays many different rhythms.
I think that most backing tracks are too long for most players to creatively improvise over. It is too long with no other solos by other instruments, and no vocals to break it up. Things can get stale, and desperation leads to deteriorating ideas.
Additionally, you can't build stage skills and the skills needed to play with a band with a backing track. They have limited utility, and you don't get the synergy you get playing with other musicians. But BTs do serve a useful purpose.
I prefer to hear music played live at gigs, without prerecorded or programmed parts. I would rather hear a simplified version, all live, than a more elaborate version provided by recording/programming. I heard a band Friday night that would have been pretty impressive if the musicians were not forced to play to a click track so that the prepared music would be in sync with the live music.
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Doug S.
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Greg Heumann
2816 posts
Aug 25, 2014
2:17 PM
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"couldn't it be said that learning to competently play over backing tracks is a useful skill for a pro"
ALL practicing/playing has value. But does a pro NEED to "learn" how to play to backing tracks? Absolutely not.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
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cyclodan
82 posts
Aug 25, 2014
2:25 PM
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Ya know I was just about to say what smwoerner said re: studio recording. When doing multi-track work you will almost always have a drum and bass rhythm track to start building on. When it's time to lay down harp you're essentially playing with a backing track. I like to use backing tracks to practice for both singing and playing as practice for something I might want to do at an open mic. It's all about being mindful. Sometimes I will just solo and noodle on as an exploratory exercise. Backing tracks are great tools I'm glad they're available.
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groyster1
2656 posts
Aug 25, 2014
3:03 PM
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Charlie hilberts backing tracks are my favorite....all the blues songs I know and charlies guitar playing and vocals help me to find the changes
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dougharps
721 posts
Aug 25, 2014
3:11 PM
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In my limited studio experiences the producer usually doesn't want you to do a solo for the whole song, so the duration of where you play is much shorter. Usually you punch in for a solo. You may be asked to comp behind the vocals some, but you are not trying to create a long creative solo over the duration of the track.
When people just play along with a backing track, they play a solo the whole time.
Maybe backing tracks with a singer or with other instrument solos would be more comparable to studio work.
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Doug S.
Edited for syntax
(not sin tax)
Last Edited by dougharps on Aug 25, 2014 3:12 PM
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Dragonbreath
15 posts
Aug 25, 2014
3:15 PM
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They are what you make of them.
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BronzeWailer
1407 posts
Aug 25, 2014
3:19 PM
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I saw Christelle play at a blues jam a couple of times, in a band situation and busking in Sydney, so she definitely has some live experience. In fact, she has great stage presence and is very funny in addition to amazing harp skills. I don't know if she has done much since leaving Oz.
I use backing tracks in the bedroom situation. Used a backing track a few times when first busking. One of my guitar guys said it was lame and I agreed with him, so I haven't been using them busking. I believe it is helping me develop timing, groove and idea generation...
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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cyclodan
83 posts
Aug 25, 2014
4:04 PM
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dougharps-quote-"When people just play along with a backing track, they play a solo the whole time"
That's just an assumption. I'll typically sing the verses where they are supposed to be and think about where the other instruments will solo and practice my comping there and rarely "solo" more than 2 verses. Again, just a tool to use as you will.
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dougharps
722 posts
Aug 25, 2014
4:21 PM
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@cyclodan
Yes, it was an assumption... based on most of the videos to backing tracks often posted here. However, it sounds as though you have developed a really constructive approach to using backing tracks. So I happily accept you correction to my assumption. I like the way you use the tool of backing tracks. You are taking full advantage of the possibilities.
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Doug S.
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Barley Nectar
496 posts
Aug 26, 2014
5:04 AM
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Don't know, never used a backing track. They sound boring to me...BN
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atty1chgo
1087 posts
Aug 26, 2014
7:37 AM
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I think that it is wrong to put jam tracks in the wastebasket completely. I have learned from the backing tracks Duke Robillard recorded for Jerry Portnoy's instructional CD's, because they are lean and precise. I also like Jimi Lee's tracks. But when I am practicing, I prefer to play along to recordings.
I think that kudzurunner's point above is the most important to consider:
"But there's a downside to backing tracks. What they CAN'T teach, unless one deliberately works them this way, is what and when NOT to play. They can't teach pacing, and phrasing. They can't teach you how to interact dynamically with a band or another musician."
- I think that the proper mix is a combination of three things - listening to, and playing alongside recordings (including jam tracks), watching live performance, and of course playing live with a band or group of musicians.
Getting to watch professional musicians EVERY CHANCE THAT YOU GET is crucial. After CAREFULLY watching a band and CAREFULLY listening for awhile, there are things that one picks up that are invaluable, especially when it comes to space and timing.
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Aug 26, 2014 7:40 AM
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CarlA
577 posts
Aug 26, 2014
8:50 AM
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"Goldbrick
636 posts
Aug 24, 2014
I am self taught and dont know Jack Shit about technical music but after 50 years of listening and playing- I think dependence on jams and backing tracks will kill your spirit"
So, what's your version of a solution? Just wanting to see if we can actually address an OP for once on MBH, rather than just spewing verbal diarrhea ad nauseum.
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barbequebob
2692 posts
Aug 26, 2014
10:42 AM
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Backing tracks may be good in the very early stages of learning but things you will never learn from them is dynamics as well as how to take complete charge of the backing band's dynamics, plus unlike having a really good band on a live gig, the overall sound from the differences in dynamics aren't gonna be there with backing tracks and in a real live band situation with a band that has a TRULY good rhythm guitar player (or even two or three really good rhythm guitar players) who can vary what they're playing behind you (and NOT the crap you generally find in the vast majority of open jams) and the really good rhythm guitarists will do with a harp player is, as Junior Watson, one of the very best guitar players in the business for backing up harp players and overall great rhythm player said in a Guitar Player magazine issue around 1990, was that the guitar player is going to accentuate the harp but NEVER cross the line and step all over it, which unfortunately, in most open jams, the opposite almost always happens.
Playing with a backing track and playing with a live band is 180 degrees different.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Goldbrick
643 posts
Aug 26, 2014
11:00 AM
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Develop social skills. Seek out other musicians. Dont shy away from asking questions
I know every musician in my complex and try and play a little of everything from Cuban Son to Merengue , jazz and blues .
I have met other players on buses, concerts , gigs even just noodling in guitar center
Listen with your mind open as well as your ears
I a may be self taught and dont know jack shit technically - but I know where I fit with a a duo or a band. I have been fortunate enuff to play with Boogaloo Joe Jones, George Benson, opened for Iggy Pop and even in the studio with the McCoys
A recording contract aint the be all and end all .
Become a rapper if you want that these days
Sorry I stepped on your imaginary friend
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smwoerner
262 posts
Aug 26, 2014
11:07 AM
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Jam tracks / backing tracks can be an effective training tool, just like a stationary bike for a cyclist or a treadmill for a runner. Unfortunately, if not used correctly they can reinforce bad habits and be detrimental to development.
I don’t like stationary training but, sometimes it’s the best option. As motivation I always have a purpose before I start out. It might be an interval routine, pacing, or maybe recovery. To truly be effective you need to have an established goal and plan.
Maybe it’s pacing, 3 minutes at a time of just repeating the same 12 bar boogie, shuffle, or rumba pattern (I know very few harp players that have the timing and stamina to play rhythm while the guitar player takes a 36 bar solo). Maybe its intervals and I’ll practice the timing and placement of fills. Maybe it’s working on an instrumental or learning an entire song with the vocals (even non-singers should practice singing if nothing else for the timing and to reinforce the melody). Or, maybe I just need a release or some creative time during a down period where I’ll noodle through a track while trying to play off of a riff without ever repeating the same phrase or pattern back to back. Guitar players break strings, we break reeds, so maybe pretend the 3 draw went flat on the second bar of your solo and improvise.
Jam tracks/backing tracks can serve a purpose, but, they are best used as part of a broader program.
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Purveyor of Optimized New and Refurbished Harmonicas.
scott@scottwoerner.com
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Ted Burke
127 posts
Aug 26, 2014
1:50 PM
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Well, whose enemy would backing tracks be? And who declared the war? It's an odd notion to think a bit of simple bit of technology, the prerecorded backing track, is the foe of feeling , emotion, legitimate, and musical innovation; it is a tool for learning the craft of the blues harmonica, it is a way for someone to stay in the game and hone their chops, their tone,their sense of groove.
I have been playing harmonica sense the late sixties, 1967 I believe, and to the end of learning where the notes are and how the bends are made, I saw live performances where I could--in Detroit we had a superb and funky college coffee house called the Chessmate that had no age limit and which brought in a slew of great roots and blues artists--and listened obsessively to certain records, over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. You get the idea. And all those hours, weeks, months, years, I had my harmonica at the ready, blowing noise and squawks and bum notes aplenty , and , as you can imagine, I had a harp with me ALWAYS and I played every chance I got ALWAYS. Adam talks about woodshedding in his fine and generous instruction videos, and that is exactly what I did, from the age of 17 onward I gave a large chunk of my life over to the commitment that I was going to play the blues harmonica and try to do something a little bit different with it.
I had no teacher, no lessons, all I had was my record collection and my experience with blues-based bands. Lots of woodshedding , stolen hours in my room,in back alleys, at bus stops and bus stations all over California when I worked the carnie circuit, I learned what I know, bit by bit, by ear, by feeling, by blowing out a couple of boxes of Marine Bands and Blues Harps in the process. Now I am 62 two years old, and at this point I would say that backing tracks, the sheer plenitude of them, were a god send in my on going self education as a musician--I found myself applying what I already know to music forms I hadn't tried before or only toyed with; that stuff is on my youtube channel, me playing country, bebop, swing blues, gypsy jazz, blue grass , heavy metal; it developed my ear, improved my skill at correctly anticipating chord progressions and song structure, backing tracks have, over all, improved, vastly improved my sense of time, pace, phrasing. Backing tracks, as a tool, a means of learning new things, has expanded my notion of what a harmonica player is able to do with such a small and theoretically limited instrument.
It is not and end all and behall, of course, and nothing substitutes for live playing situations, but backing tracks have been an aid to my progression as a player. I understand someone not caring for backing tracks as such, preferring live performance over anything else, but the fact of the matter is I have heard wonderful players using backing tracks and have been witness to some sublime improvisers who use pre-recorded tracks well. They are no one's enemy and maintaining that they are an anathema to real music making is a bit of Luddite rhetoric that is silly on the face of it. My two cents
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ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.com
Last Edited by Ted Burke on Aug 26, 2014 10:26 PM
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SmokeJS
292 posts
Aug 26, 2014
2:09 PM
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I sing to backing tracks. Also play rhythm and lead guitar to backing tracks as well as accompaniment harp and harp solos.
If modern musicians don't need to be in the same studio at the same time to record songs is there any significant difference to playing with backing tracks?
Last Edited by SmokeJS on Aug 26, 2014 2:10 PM
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atty1chgo
1089 posts
Aug 26, 2014
6:45 PM
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I don't mean to sidetrack the thread, but....
@ barbequebob - you posted above a Junior Watson quote that "the guitar player is going to accentuate the harp but NEVER cross the line and step all over it." I have always tried to follow that logic, because I have been warned not to do otherwise (not unlike the quote in your post), but then I watch Billy Branch and Ronnie Baker Brooks the other night, and they are ALL OVER each other's playing. I guess it must depend on who the two offenders are. Are they teaching us all bad habits, or are they just so good at it that this type of behavior cannot be questioned? Can't blame "backing tracks" on this. :) The very beginning of the video is the best example of what I am talking about.
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Aug 26, 2014 6:52 PM
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Goldbrick
644 posts
Aug 26, 2014
8:34 PM
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I thought the video was cool. I think they were just having fun with a "head cutting" type thing goin' on
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JInx
861 posts
Aug 26, 2014
9:54 PM
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"Well, whose enemy would backing tracks be? And who declared the war? It's an odd notion to think a bit of simple bit of technology, the prerecorded backing track, is the foe of feeling , emotion, legitimate, and musical innovation; it is a tool for learning the craft of the blues harmonica, it is a way for someone to stay in the game and hone their chops, their tone,their sense of groove. I have been playing harmonica sense the late sixties, 1967 I believe, and to the end of learning where the notes are and how the bends are made, I saw live performances where I could--in Detroit we had a superb and funky college coffee house called the Chessmate that had no age limit and which brought in a slew of great roots and blues artists--and listened obsessively to certain records, over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. You get the idea. And all those hours, weeks, months, years, I had my harmonica at the ready, blowing noise and squawks and bum notes aplenty , and , as you can imagine, I had a harp with me ALWAYS and I played every chance I got ALWAYS. Adam talks about woodshedding in his fine and generous instruction videos, and that is exactly what I did, from the age of 17 onward I gave a large chunk of my life over to the commitment that I was going to play the blues harmonica and try to do something a little bit different with it. I had no teacher, no lessons, all I had was my record collection and my experience with blues-based bands. Lots of woodshedding , stolen hours in my room,in back alleys, at bus stops and bus stations all over California when I worked the carnie circuit, I learned what I know, bit by bit, by ear, by feeling, by blowing out a couple of boxes of Marine Bands and Blues Harps in the process. Now I am 62 two years old, and at this point I would say that backing tracks, the sheer plenitude of them, were a god send in my on going self education as a musician--I found myself applying what I already know to music forms I hadn't tried before or only toyed with; that stuff is on my youtube channel, me playing country, bebop, swing blues, gypsy jazz, blue grass , heavy metal; it developed my ear, improved my skill at correctly anticipating chord progressions and song structure, backing tracks have, over all, improved, vastly improved my sense of time, pace, phrasing. Backing tracks, as a tool, a means of learning new things, has expanded my notion of what a harmonica player is able to do with such a small and theoretically limited instrument. It is not and end all and behall, of course, and nothing substitutes for live playing situations, but backing tracks have been an aid to my progression as a player. I understand someone not caring for backing tracks as such, preferring live performance over anything else, but the fact of the matter is I have heard wonderful players using backing tracks and have been witness to some sublime improvisers who use pre-recorded tracks well. They are no one's enemy and maintaining that they are an anathema to real music making is a bit of Luddite rhetoric that is silly on the face of it. My two cents"
Yikes, that paragraph is constructed much like your music...
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