Frank
4721 posts
Jun 30, 2014
3:55 AM
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Playing with emotion, passion & conviction are qualities we deeply desire to convey to others when expressing ourselves through the harmonica or singing etc.
It is so easy to lose audience connection when there is not much substance to capture their attention in the first place.
Why is it that conveying meaning, emotion and believability of a song are some of the most difficult aspects to deliver for musicians who wish to be performers?
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 30, 2014 4:01 AM
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The Iceman
1784 posts
Jun 30, 2014
4:21 AM
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I dunno.
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The Iceman
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Goldbrick
511 posts
Jun 30, 2014
4:34 AM
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What would Miles do ?
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Frank
4724 posts
Jun 30, 2014
4:35 AM
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Took almost five thousand posts to stump you Larry so you have nothing to be ashamed of...but I have a sneaking suspicion that your are holding some ancient secret close to your chest - unwilling to tell us how you bring the audience under the spell of the "iceman" :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 30, 2014 4:37 AM
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The Iceman
1786 posts
Jun 30, 2014
4:46 AM
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Miles would say "Play what you know and play next to what you know".
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The Iceman
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Frank
4727 posts
Jun 30, 2014
4:49 AM
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But how do you personally Earn the Respect & Confidence of your audience? Or is it just your pure, raw animal magnetism you portray when turning into "The Iceman" on stage :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 30, 2014 5:02 AM
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The Iceman
1787 posts
Jun 30, 2014
5:07 AM
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With my performance philosophy, your last comment is pretty accurate.
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The Iceman
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Frank
4728 posts
Jun 30, 2014
5:12 AM
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God - this like pulling teeth :)...So, would you care to expound and make the comment even more accurate?
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The Iceman
1790 posts
Jun 30, 2014
5:16 AM
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nope.
However, you can see an example from that SPAH Winslow's Bunch O' Guys video during my short solo.
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The Iceman
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Frank
4729 posts
Jun 30, 2014
5:27 AM
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No thanks, I was sincerely hoping for a better example then that...but it's the thought that counts :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 30, 2014 5:32 AM
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The Iceman
1791 posts
Jun 30, 2014
5:40 AM
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K.
(My philosophy - one video is worth 1000 words)
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The Iceman
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Frank
4731 posts
Jun 30, 2014
5:49 AM
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Sho nuf, and 2 are worth 10 times that :)
Remember the topic is...
Playing with emotion, passion & conviction are qualities we deeply desire to convey to others when expressing ourselves through the harmonica or singing etc.
It is so easy to lose audience connection when there is not much substance to capture their attention in the first place.
Why is it that conveying meaning, emotion and believability of a song are some of the most difficult aspects to deliver for musicians who wish to be performers?
------------------------------------------------------
My baby don't stand no cheatin', my babe
Oh yeah she don't stand no cheatin', my babe
Oh yeah she don't stand no cheatin',
She don't stand none of that midnight creepin'
My babe, true little baby, my babe
My babe, I know she love me, my babe
Oh yes, I know she love me, my babe
Oh yes, I know she love me,
She don't do nothin' but kiss and hug me
My babe, true little baby, my babe
My baby don't stand no cheatin', my babe
Oh no, she don't stand no cheatin', my babe
Oh no, she don't stand no cheatin',
Ev'rything she do she do so pleasin'
My babe, true little baby, my babe
My baby don't stand no foolin', my babe
Oh yeah, she don't stand no foolin', my babe
Oh yeah, she don't stand no foolin',
When she's hot there ain't no coolin'
My babe, true little baby, my babe
She's my baby (true little baby) ...
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 30, 2014 5:50 AM
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Komuso
323 posts
Jun 30, 2014
6:17 AM
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Buy them free drinks?
But I think you answer your own question:
"It is so easy to lose audience connection when there is not much substance to capture their attention in the first place."
ie: "when there is not much substance"
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Jun 30, 2014 6:19 AM
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Frank
4733 posts
Jun 30, 2014
6:19 AM
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Works for Bruce Willis :)
Also...Why is the sky blue and what is this scary "substance thing" your referring about ?
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 30, 2014 6:22 AM
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Komuso
324 posts
Jun 30, 2014
6:44 AM
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You referred to it first. Check your crib notes?
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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Frank
4735 posts
Jun 30, 2014
6:50 AM
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Don't tell me Larry and Paul both have both been stumped on the same day...Are you guys chocking on coming up with worthy answers on the deep philosophical questions at hand here? :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 30, 2014 6:54 AM
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Komuso
325 posts
Jun 30, 2014
7:13 AM
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On the nature of musical substance
I think Norwegian trumpet-player Arve Henriksen is an excellent musician. I also think that German saxophonist Peter Brötzmann is an excellent and important musician. But that doesn't mean that their music is good, or at least always good.
In totally different styles, both Henriksen and Brötzmann have just released albums which, to my taste, are almost substance-less. I spent my money on it. So this is a warning to those of you who happen to share the same tastes. The question is then : what is musical substance? It is not a question of rhythm or melody. You can play wonderful music without rhythm or melody. There is also plenty of music with rhythm and melody that lack substance. So what is musical substance? I think that you need the delight to hear something solid. Something with a story to tell, one that you haven't heard before, one that is not boring. A story with a clear focus, that goes somewhere, that contains true emotions, and a plot-like evolution. Something that's been thought about, even if improvised, something that's been worked on, even during rehearsals. Something that is not there to please or shock the listener, but something that the musicians want to convey, something they're eager to tell, to share, whether it's agony, pain or joy and happiness, but it has to sound true, it has to have emotional depth, and preferably also some musical inventiveness by using new forms to accentuate that story's message. Something refreshing, which forces you to hear things differently, which opens new realms of music, that surprises you, that baffles you. Something that you must be able to set your teeth in.
On the nature of musical substance
Well, that's one opinion.
You can't please everyone, especially when it comes to a subjective topic like musical (or any art) taste.
Of course there are objective criteria you can use to evaluate a musical performance that would tick the boxes along a continuum from crap to sublime, but there are also the qualitative more subjective aspects which I would posit as being just as important.
Below a certain quantitative level of performance I don't think you will capture any audience apart from your mum (timing, pitch, tone, etc etc) but above the benchmark levels that indicate you have at least got your basic musical shit together in order to perform you will need some level of qualitative substance in order to speak to who is willing to listen.
ie: Develop your own voice, and the ability to speak with it.
my 2 yen
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Jun 30, 2014 7:17 AM
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LSC
652 posts
Jun 30, 2014
9:16 AM
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"Why is it that conveying meaning, emotion and believability of a song are some of the most difficult aspects to deliver for musicians who wish to be performers? "
IMHO, because there is a difference between playing technically correct and feel. Feel comes from the heart and mind. It's either there or it isn't.
I'm reminded of a comment a Dutch musician friend of mine once conveyed. In Holland if you've finished "high school" and want to be a musician when you grow up the government will pay for you to go to music school. These schools tend to be heavily oriented to jazz and classical, concentrating on theory and technique. The result, as my friend conveyed, "The problem with Dutch players is they know where to put their fingers, they just don't know how to feel."
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LSC
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JInx
811 posts
Jul 01, 2014
3:35 PM
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I have found that, if you can maintain control of you emotions, tempo and dynamics, you can prettym much take them wherever you want. That will be 2 cents, lol
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mastercaster
48 posts
Jul 02, 2014
1:00 AM
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I'm referring to bar gig's and private parties ..
I think it takes more than playing well to really , Earn the respect .... or Connect with an audience, this sometimes can be accomplished with music only .. but, imo, not often.
Substance = entertainment .. which is music + working the crowd/room
Someone in the band, must be able to capture their attention and make their experience personal ... make a connection ..
To me the idea is to try to make the room kind of like a big family party for that night ...
I get a bit bored watching bands that are good technicians .. but not entertainers ... no stage presence and/or neglect to include the folks who are there.
You make the experience personal .. they will give all the respect & attention to make a satisfying show for both sides ...
Remember :
The more they drink .. the better we sound ...
It's a 2 way street :
The more we drink ... the better they look ....
Last Edited by mastercaster on Jul 02, 2014 2:50 AM
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Diggsblues
1407 posts
Jul 02, 2014
3:35 AM
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You got it you got it. Being an entertainer only goes so far. Jimmy Bruno the great jazz guitar player told the worst jokes but when he played he commanded the room.
Emile
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Littoral
1109 posts
Jul 02, 2014
3:56 AM
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*Current analogy, "football", if you don't have the skills to maintain possession (control) you ain't gonna score.
mastercaster is talking about reading a room and from my experience that's a rare skill. Enthusiasm isn't of much use for that, other recognizing the value of reading the room and really working to make it happen. I worked for years with a blind front man on piano who was a master at it. He was only ok as an MC but incredible at calling tunes -delivering them as well but that should be a prerequisite given for the OP question (gaining respect and confidence from an audience). He also knew about 300 tunes well and also made them his own. Knowing the original tune allows listeners access to engaging/participating and some personalization of the tune is an opportunity to go farther with the connection (performer & band).
REGARDLESS, step one is all about the ladies. Make them happy and a whole lot will follow. That's not a primary motivation for most blues bands. We play for ourselves. We certainly want a bunch of grooving happy people but it's not a priority. We expect them to respond if we play really well.
Set lists are a sure sign that it's not going to happen. Calling the right tunes is essential and if you don't have 100+ to draw from then you ain't got enough game.
Last Edited by Littoral on Jul 02, 2014 4:04 AM
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S-harp
221 posts
Jul 02, 2014
1:16 PM
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You can be a cool cat ... you can be all in and sweat and really get into the groove ... you can be an entertainer ... doesn't matter really ... what matters is connection, to the music, your fellow musicians and the listeners. Mastercaster, you also talked about connecting with the listeners. My son and I went to a Pearl Jam concert ,, some 25-30 000 in the audiance ... did Eddie connect? Oh Yes!!!!
" Feel" the music? Totally Overrated! Nobody can see what you feel on stage. I remember Dustin Hoffman's reply to a question about the importance to "feel" what you act. His answer was in line with ... Feel? It's acting, nobody can tell what you are feeling unless you show them => meaning it's more or less a technique of "acting" Is this shallow? Nope, it's putting up a professional show.
When you get on stage you better deliver, be on your toes and put up a "show" no matter what you might "feel" or not.
My biggest misstake up to a couple of years ago was to forget to Every Time connect to the audience. I was always in the zone together with my fellow musicians and the music itself, but not the audience every time. Big change when I started to open up some to the audiance.
All that aside ... having a good time ... enjoying .... then I'd say we're in the ballpark .
Last Edited by S-harp on Jul 02, 2014 1:18 PM
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mastercaster
49 posts
Jul 02, 2014
9:58 PM
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@littoral :
i'm not just referring to 'reading a room' , however, that is certainly part of the full equation , and .. it is not easy, only comes with experience ...
answering Frank's question, using these methods to connect and earn the full attention of the folks ...
" I worked for years with a blind front man on piano who was a master at it. He was only ok as an MC but incredible at calling tunes -delivering them as well but that should be a prerequisite given for the OP question (gaining respect and confidence from an audience). He also knew about 300 tunes well and also made them his own. Knowing the original tune allows listeners access to engaging/participating and some personalization of the tune is an opportunity to go farther with the connection (performer & band). "
Absolutely , calling tunes is a great way to open the 'connection' experience ... many bands don't participate in this , what I consider to be the minimum in bandstand presence/practice ... very effective !
@S-harp :
"When you get on stage you better deliver, be on your toes and put up a "show" no matter what you might "feel" or not.
My biggest misstake up to a couple of years ago was to forget to Every Time connect to the audience. I was always in the zone together with my fellow musicians and the music itself, but not the audience every time. Big change when I started to open up some to the audiance. "
Exactly what I'm talkin about !
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Komuso
327 posts
Jul 03, 2014
4:30 AM
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Seven Ways to Captivate a Live Music Audience With Your First Song
Good article, but it goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway!) that before you use these you need to be able to perform to a base standard musically first. It doesn't have to be technically polished though, just musical - big difference.
That said, that should not stop you getting up live and giving it a shot while you are still building your musical skills. It's a great way to learn as well, and audiences can also be very forgiving under the right circumstances.
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Jul 03, 2014 6:24 AM
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nacoran
7853 posts
Jul 03, 2014
2:19 PM
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The other night I had a mixed bag at an open mic. I screwed up my singing on my last song and it left a sour taste in my mouth... but...
For the first two songs I had the audience by the balls, so to speak.
Step one- Follow a weak act!!! (Lol)
Step two- well, I hadn't played this open mic in a while so I wanted to make a statement. I know people have prejudices and opinions about different styles of music, so I started off with the snootiest piece I know- the theme from 'Masterpiece Theater'. I played just enough of that so I had everyone's attention and I played straight into a catchy fast riff that I know I can nail. I realized as I was playing I'd completely blanked on what I was going to play as a change, so I played enough to satisfy and wrapped it up. In one song I'd pushed things a bit and realized when enough was enough.
For the next tune I pulled out my harmonic minor and played a tune that sounds really complicated but is actually stupid simple It's got a beat people naturally clap to and it's got a structure that lets me extend it easily if the crowd is into it.
Then I tried to sing for the third song. Oh well. That's why I'm not a pro!
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Slimharp
343 posts
Jul 05, 2014
8:15 AM
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Play the best you have at the time, play honestly with feeling and forget about the rest. If you are too concerned about what the audience thinks your screwed. I have noticed some of the best stuff put down ( especially in bar gigs ) was in the last set, the place half empty, and only the diehards left. Many times that's when the magic happens.
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Barley Nectar
431 posts
Jul 05, 2014
11:17 AM
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+1 for Slim...
A lot of this is personality. If you have the chops and you are a people person, the audience will know it. You will connect...Goose
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