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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
harpdude 61 LIP BLOCK instruction video
harpdude 61 LIP BLOCK instruction video
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harpdude61
2037 posts
Jun 25, 2014
4:48 PM
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PLEASE COMMENT!!!
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harpdude61
2038 posts
Jun 25, 2014
4:53 PM
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As compared to 35 seconds into this video he talks about pushing out to get the single note.
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The Iceman
1775 posts
Jun 25, 2014
4:55 PM
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nicely done.
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The Iceman
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isaacullah
2836 posts
Jun 26, 2014
6:42 AM
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EXCELLENT description, Duane! I certainly learned some stuff! :) Would you mind if I also post the video I made yesterday here? I think it might be nice to have them all in one place for posterity's sake (Google searches, etc.). I'll embed it below, but let me know if it's encroaching too much on your thread and I'll take it out...
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harpdude61
2041 posts
Jun 26, 2014
8:24 AM
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Very cool Isaac! No problem. I just hope some of the top players will chime in.
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kudzurunner
4757 posts
Jun 26, 2014
2:14 PM
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Thanks, Duane and Isaaac, for making those videos.
I'm definitely convinced, now, that there's a difference of some sort between the fish-lips LP and the full-on LB embouchure--whereas before I hadn't been sure.
Duane, I like the way you make relaxation a basic part of what the LB orientation is about. I'm not convinced by the playing you do in the video, though, that the LB embouchure enables the sort of fast precise single note runs that my regular (fish lips) LP and (in the hands of Sugar Blue) TB enables. I'm leerying of calling your playing sloppy--that sounds rude--but still: I'd personally be more intrigued if you played a fast and precise single note line, moving rapidly from the top to the bottom of the harp. In other words, right now I hear you paying an audible price for your vaunted "relaxation."
Isaac, I think that in your three-part video you stack the deck somewhat more, tone wise, against the #2 (fish lips) LP embouchure than seems fair. Both you and Duane confuse--in my opinion--LP with a raised jaw, as though only LB playing entails a dropped jaw. It is true that many LP players keep their jaw too tight, too high, and suffer thin (or thinner than optimal) tone as a result. That's why I always stress how important it is, as a LP player, to drop your jaw.
It's a good conversation, though--it's worth having, and these two videos will surely help clarify some of the core issues, even as, IMHO, they at least two core issues (i.e., the ones I've just raised) unresolved.
One thing that I take away from this discussion is that we should all be willing to experiment. It may be, for example, that some players will try the tilt and suddenly experience deeper tone. What's not to like?
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harpdude61
2043 posts
Jun 26, 2014
6:56 PM
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kudzurunner..I appreciate your response and your open minded comment about experimentation. Your last paragraph means a lot. Thank you! Isaac and I may not be innovators, but you do seem to appreciate that we are students with passion that love to dig deep.
Sugar Blue is a speed demon and you move pretty darn quick yourself. I can't compare what I do to two of the worlds top players.
Jerry "Boogie" McCains sorta sloppy loose style had a big influence on me. No insult taken. Call it what you see.
You have enticed me to make speed a part of my practice routine just to find out.
You commented on the other thread something like "show me reasons TBers and LPers should switch". There are no reasons. You guys are fantastic at what works best for you. I deeply apologize if I came across sounding like "anything a lip purser can do a lip blocker can do better". Not the truth. Neither embouchure affects soul, feel, rhythm, imagination, theory knowledge, work ethic, seasoning, taste, influence, and desire, among other things that define a player.
You know what a huge fan I am of Jason's playing. I notice his throat a lot when he plays. He seems so loose and the way he milks a note, including overbends appears, to me anyway, to be rooted in the throat. His harp tilt is somewhere between level and what I do.
I also think mouth size, shape, overbite, underbite, muscle size and position, all play a part in what embouchure or variation thereof is best for the player along with what style appeals to the individual.
OK..here comes the weakness, IMHO, of the lip block. I tilt my harp so dramatically that my upper lip hangs over the harp. If you don't watch you can let your index finger get too much friction against the area above your upper lip on one side and the bottom of your nose on the other. Be careful too about your index finger blocking the "sound out" slot on the upper half of the harp. Took awhile but I found the sweet spot. Luckily I have skinny fingers. To me, these do not appear to be issues for lip pursers.
Another is getting a seal with a mic. I never could quite get it with a bullet mic. A stick mic is it. Maybe a stick mic is better for lippers and a bullet is better for TBers??
Maybe lip blocking is not the best way to overbend. Maybe it's because I became so passionate about learning them, that when they came, I assumed it was embouchure?
I gave the speed playing a shot just for kicks. Not totally clean, but I do work in a couple of overblows and overdraws.
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Last Edited by harpdude61 on Jun 26, 2014 7:25 PM
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didjcripey
762 posts
Jun 26, 2014
11:13 PM
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Thanks for sharing; you're obviously passionate about your style. I've mentioned it before, but it doesn't seem to have been picked up, that peoples mouths are shaped differently.
Looking at yours in the video, it appears that your bottom lip naturally falls in a V shape. Mine is dead flat. When I try this method (and I have given it a try a few times), I cannot get a clean single note without a pucker regardless of angle of tilt on the harp.
I think its a case of horses for courses.
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Lucky Lester
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eharp
2178 posts
Jun 27, 2014
4:50 AM
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I have always LB, but I tilt the harp the other way.
The top lip is what blocks the side holes.
And for double stops/chords, I turn the harp more horizontal.
Now,, Harpdude, in watching your video (great job, btw) I was wondering if your style of LP work's best on the Golden Melody?
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harpdude61
2047 posts
Jun 27, 2014
5:41 AM
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@eharp...you bring up an excellent point that I have failed to mention. I can't play a Marine Band or similar shaped harp as well as my GM on holes 1,2 9,10. It does not fit the embouchure very well. GM is perfect because it's longer and doesn't change shape on the ends. The ends of a squared off harp leak and are a bit uncomfortable with the depth of my GM in my mouth.
Interesting you tilt the other way. Now we have lip block up and lip block down!lol
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isaacullah
2837 posts
Jun 27, 2014
7:47 AM
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Thanks for having a look, Adam, and for your thoughtful response. You bring up an excellent point! I just picked up a harp and tried to play really fast licks. Yup, sure enough I am switching to the "Fish Lips" embouchure any time I try to play fast. I wonder if the benefits of "big" tone largely disappear during fast runs? I'm talking about it from a musical perspective; i.e., you don't "need" big tone in fast passages, as there isn't enough time for "big" tone to register in the listener's ears anyway? Just a thought....
BTW, I didn't mean to sell the "fish lips pucker" short on tone -- I think you can still get great tone with the fish lips! I do think it takes less "conscious effort" to achieve "big" tone with what Duane and I are calling the "Lip Block", however, and so it's much easier for beginners to sound good if they aren't locked into the visual mnemonic that's queued by the word "pucker". In any case, I am, and always have been, an advocate of getting as many tools in your tool belt as possible. Conscientious and careful study, debate, and discussion about the costs and benefits of these and other techniques can only lead to better playing. For example, now I know that one needs to do one thing with ones embouchure to play "fast and tight", and another when one wants to play "big and slow".
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harpdude61
2049 posts
Jun 27, 2014
8:40 AM
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Isaac, I don't consider myself a fast player. That said, I got the ole metronome out and kept speeding up a couple of phrases. Doing the licks both LB and LP, then speeding up and repeating.
I see no reason LB would slow you down. IMHO relaxation makes faster easier. Jason plays as fast as anyone. Sometimes his embouchure looks closer to LB than LP.
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Last Edited by harpdude61 on Jun 27, 2014 8:42 AM
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tmf714
2622 posts
Jun 27, 2014
10:02 AM
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harpdude61
2053 posts
Jun 27, 2014
1:33 PM
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Thanks tmf!
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harpdude61
2054 posts
Jun 30, 2014
8:17 AM
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Got a lot of "agree and disagree" with last weeks threads. The nay sayers convinced me that lip pursing is lip blocking so there are countless embouchure possibilities in purse or puckers styles.
Big kiss loose and relaxed, little kiss tight and puckered, Jaw dropped and lips relaxed, tilt anywhere from back of harp almost straight up to back of harp almost straight down...some even tilt the harp with one end higher than the other.
Some lip block exclusively while others combine with tongue blocking.
I learned a lot from these threads and I hope others did as well.
I do want to apologize to any new players that were confused or got their mouth in knots trying to figure out what works for them.
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