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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > minor keys
minor keys
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naptown jack
23 posts
Jun 18, 2014
12:18 PM
I need some info on playing diatonic harp in minor keys, tips, hints,insight, you know. Somebody enlighten me. Thanks bros!
STME58
899 posts
Jun 18, 2014
12:45 PM
Just knowing that a C harp contains all of the notes of A minor help a lot. Playing in A on a C harp is forth position. A G harp has most of the notes in A minor, it has an F# instead of an F though. Playing in A on a G harp is third position.

Thinking of it this way then playing minor scales (just start on A on a C harp) and then minor tunes helped me get started. Summertime is a good minor tune to learn your way around minor on a major harp. I find fourth position easier to get the basic tune down on but it is easier to be expressive in third position.
Gnarly
1030 posts
Jun 18, 2014
12:48 PM
What Steve said.

The notes of the diatonic harmonica belong to a major scale which can be used to play in minor.
So (using a C as an example) D minor can be played from draw 4 on up with no missing notes, and a nice tonic chord on draw 4, 5, and 6. That's third position.
Of course, the 6th degree of the scale, B natural, is a major 6th, so it's not natural minor. That key would be Am.
There's no A minor chord on a C harmonica, but lots of people play in 4th position--and they play in 5th, which would be Em.
I like using alternative tunings, so minor can be easier on those harmonicas.

Oh, it's worth mentioning that cross harp can produce a minor scale, if you consistently flat the third note of the scale (G on a C, so the third is B). But there is no elegant way to do that in the second octave unless you are skilled with overblows.

Last Edited by Gnarly on Jun 18, 2014 12:48 PM
Destin
78 posts
Jun 18, 2014
1:09 PM
Work on third position
jnorem
299 posts
Jun 18, 2014
1:54 PM
Thinking in terms of modes really opened the harmonica up for me. Using the C harp you can see how second position is the mixolydian mode (flat 7), third position is dorian (flat 3 & 7), fourth position is aeolian, which is the same as the natural minor scale (flat 3,6 & 7) and the fifth position is phrygian, similar to the natural minor scale (flat 2,3,6 &7). All of the modes correspond to the white keys on a piano starting on C and ending on B.

Playing straight harp puts you in the ionian mode, which is the same as a major scale. The other two modes, lydian and locrian, are pretty exotic for playing blues with, but they're still fun to use for other things.
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Call me J

Last Edited by jnorem on Jun 18, 2014 1:56 PM
nacoran
7813 posts
Jun 18, 2014
3:41 PM
Or, you can cheat and use a minor tuned harmonica. :)

Of course, that can be just as confusing because the different brands label them differently (either in 1st or 2nd position) but they give you some chord options you won't get on a major harp. That said, there are other subtle differences and I think you can make an argument for preferring the sound of either one.

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Nate
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STME58
900 posts
Jun 18, 2014
4:46 PM
The minor harp gives you chord choices you don't have on a Richter tuned harp.As Nate says, The labeling is confusing. Both Lee Oscar and Honer harps in natural minor have the complete natural minor scale in second position. Playing these harps in first position you have a raised 6th to contend with that is not in the natural minor scale. This is the opposite of Richter tuning where first position has all the notes of the major scale and second position has one sharp not in the scale. Not a bad thing, but something you need to be aware of.

Last Edited by STME58 on Jun 18, 2014 4:46 PM
jnorem
300 posts
Jun 18, 2014
5:33 PM
You know what's neat about a natural minor tuned harp? In fifth position you're in a a major key. It's a blast playing major scale licks on a diatonic harp.
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Call me J
STME58
905 posts
Jun 18, 2014
5:39 PM
There you go with the mode thing again. Must be something to that!

As an exercise I play major and minor scales on Richter and Natural minor harps. Dorian is also fun but I seldom go further than that.

If you are not playing cords it would be hard for a listener to tell weather you had a major or minor harp.
Bends could give it away if the listener was really paying attention and know the harp well.
STME58
906 posts
Jun 18, 2014
6:02 PM
On the recommendation or Garry, a poster on this forum, I bought a book by John Powell titled, "How Music Works". In this book he describes key as teams of 7 notes picked from the pool of 12 available in the western chromatic scale. It is a helpful way to think of modes. C major, A natural minor, D Dorian and a few others all have the same team members, but feature them in different positions. The team is selected when you pick a harp, or if writing music, when you write the key signature, but the key/mode is determined by which note you make the featured player.
Mighty Slim
16 posts
Jun 19, 2014
9:54 AM
Anybody but me find 5th position easier and more expressive than 3rd for playing most minor key tunes ? Feel like I have most of three octaves available with few and easy bends needed. I use both but just find 5th more satisfactory most of the time. My preference for 5th over 3rd has made me wonder why the great players of the 40s and 50s and 60s seem mostly to have recorded in 3rd when playing in a minor key. I just wonder why 5th wasn't more popular.


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