rockmonkeyguitars
54 posts
Apr 12, 2014
3:11 AM
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I just bought a new Db Hohner blues harp and I can't get hole 3 to bend. I've never had a problem like this before. When I try to bend hole 3 is just chokes and I either get no sound or I get the hi pitch squeal from the reed twisting. There seemed to be a lot of air leaking so I checked the comb and against a known flat surface (something I use when making guitar parts) the comb is better than most production harps I've had. The reedplates are bowed a bit bowed but not horrible and I'v got several harps that play great with more bow in their reedplats. I have made sure there are no burrs on the plates. Finally I embossed the reed slot to give minimal air leakage.
Anybody got any ideas about why this might be happening?
What you think is causing this?
What do I need to do to fix it?
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20REEDS
6 posts
Apr 12, 2014
3:29 AM
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Is the 3 Blow functioning? Maybe you have the gap on the blow reed too close...
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rockmonkeyguitars
55 posts
Apr 12, 2014
3:43 AM
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Both 3 blow and draw are functioning. When I got the harp the gaps were so open that I could hardly get the hole to play at all. I slowly closed the gaps and tested as I went. Through the whole possess I couldn't get a bend from the 3 hole. The current gaps are visually the same as my old Db harp. I would try replacing the reed of my new Db with the reeds from my old D flat but unfortunately it's the 3 hole blow that had worn out and prompted me to buy a new harp.
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colman
300 posts
Apr 12, 2014
3:55 AM
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I was told 45 yr. ago ,when you have a new harp ,don`t blow on it hard a few hours.do some smooth train chuggin` or what and the harp will run much better.after all this time i still do that and it works...
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arzajac
1333 posts
Apr 12, 2014
5:21 AM
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"Anybody got any ideas about why this might be happening?"
Depending on your playing style and embouchure, it could be any of a few things.
"What you think is causing this?"
At least one of the reeds is not moving the way it should.
"What do I need to do to fix it?"
I suggest finding the cause and fixing it. Here's what I suggest to cover all the bases:
1- Make sure the reeds are not caught on a foreign body or a burr - you've already done this. Basically, look at the reeds and gap them, move them through the slot, plink them (draw reeds).
2- Assess how airtight it is. A simple way that catches every aspect and every piece at the same time is to take the covers off and put your fingers over both the top and bottom slots at the same time. Try to puff air in and out and feel how airtight the hole is. Then do the same with another hole that is not giving you trouble. If they are the same, move on. Air leak is not part of the problem.
3- Check to see that the reeds are centered. If you have a mobile phone with a touch screen, light up the screen and place the comb flat on top of it. Press one of the reed plates onto the comb and move the reed through the slot looking for light on both sides of the reed. You need to press the reedplate down since the slot shape will be different at rest than when assembled. You did mention that the reed plate is bowed.
Lots of times, you will hold the reed plate in your hand and it will plink just fine. But when you assemble the harp, the same reed will buzz.
4- Look at the shape of the reed. Does part of the reed go through the slot well before the rest of the reed? A lot of time, aggressive gapping can make the note still play even if the reeds have a whacky shape. But bends or overbends will not play very well.
I hope this helps.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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arzajac
1334 posts
Apr 12, 2014
5:21 AM
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"Anybody got any ideas about why this might be happening?"
Depending on your playing style and embouchure, it could be any of a few things.
"What you think is causing this?"
At least one of the reeds is not moving the way it should.
"What do I need to do to fix it?"
I suggest finding the cause and fixing it. Here's what I suggest to cover all the bases:
1- Make sure the reeds are not caught on a foreign body or a burr - you've already done this. Basically, look at the reeds and gap them, move them through the slot, plink them (draw reeds).
2- Assess how airtight it is. A simple way that catches every aspect and every piece at the same time is to take the covers off and put your fingers over both the top and bottom slots at the same time. Try to puff air in and out and feel how airtight the hole is. Then do the same with another hole that is not giving you trouble. If they are the same, move on. Air leak is not part of the problem.
3- Check to see that the reeds are centered. If you have a mobile phone with a touch screen, light up the screen and place the comb flat on top of it. Press one of the reed plates onto the comb and move the reed through the slot looking for light on both sides of the reed. You need to press the reedplate down since the slot shape will be different at rest than when assembled. You did mention that the reed plate is bowed.
Lots of times, you will hold the reed plate in your hand and it will plink just fine. But when you assemble the harp, the same reed will buzz.
4- Look at the shape of the reed. Does part of the reed go through the slot well before the rest of the reed? A lot of time, aggressive gapping can make the note still play even if the reeds have a whacky shape. But bends or overbends will not play very well.
I hope this helps.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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teba
4 posts
Apr 12, 2014
11:57 AM
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I didn't find the old thread where I asked a couple of questions of harp tweaking so I'll use this thread instead.
I have opened a couple of my harps, and the oldest ones (those one which I played a lot when I started to play) seem to have some of the reeds a bit "twisted", I mean that the edge of the reed is not even with the gap (there is more space between the other corner and the gap than on the other). Is this kind of an indicator that the harp is blown out (or about to blow out)? I guess that I have been playing too hard in my very early days, bending too low etc. Not proper setup on my harps that times, I agree. Still a lot to learn.
And then I remember that someone (was it arzajac?) mentioned a web resource to harmonica customising, where you can buy some online lessons. Could someone link that website again please?
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GMaj7
395 posts
Apr 12, 2014
12:19 PM
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Rockmonkeyguitars.. Great info up there. Pretty much everything in the checklist is right on the numbers. My bet - however - is that the base of the reed has sunk or been nudged below the edge of the reed plate. No part of the reed should be in the slot in the resting position.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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SuperBee
1911 posts
Apr 12, 2014
3:13 PM
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That's very interesting to hear Greg. The harps I have replaced reeds on play well (the entire reed sits above the slot) but after (recently) watching Richard Sleigh's video I had the impression I should have been pushing the base of the reed into the slot. That was actually messing with my head a bit; I was reluctant to go back and change what seemed to be working well. Glad I didn't.
I expect I just didn't watch carefully enough. Probably got the wrong idea...
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rockmonkeyguitars
56 posts
Apr 13, 2014
12:46 AM
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Thank you all for the help.
I think I'm nearing in on the problem. I went through all your suggestions step by step and found that the 3 blow wasn't very centered when the plate was pressed flat. I also found that the base of the reed on 3 draw was just slightly lower than the top of the reedslot and so I straightened the reed a little.
The bend is still very windy and quiet but it does bend now. It seems that the more I've closed the gap on 3 blow the better the bending is but the bending still isn't good.
Is it possible that the reed is abnormally stiff and therefore less responsive?
Last Edited by rockmonkeyguitars on Apr 13, 2014 12:48 AM
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arzajac
1337 posts
Apr 13, 2014
4:22 AM
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"Is it possible that the reed is abnormally stiff and therefore less responsive?"
The reed is probably not shaped so that most of it passes through the slot at the same time.
Look at the reed plate held parallel to the table. Look through the slot and see the slit of light. Place a piece of white paper on the table to get a bright spot to look at and therefore get a better view (look at the paper through the slot). Press the tip of the reed into the slot and watch the slit disappear. I'll be the first part of the reed now dives in first.
You'll get the best response and loudest sound if the reed "belly flops" into the slot rather than dives-in head first when you look at the reed this way. Shape the reed so all the light disappears at once. Maybe not all the light - air for at least 75 per cent to start - that's better than stock on many harps.
Reed shape is just as important as anything else in making the harmonica a joy to play.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Apr 13, 2014 4:23 AM
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rockmonkeyguitars
57 posts
Apr 13, 2014
6:28 AM
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I've currently got both the draw and blow reeds nearly 100% straight and flush with the top of the reed slot. Only the very tip of the reed bends slightly up. The blow and draw are both very strong. When I bend the note it's relatively strong at 3 simitones down, really windy and squeaks at 2 simitones and chokes when I try to get a 1 semitone bend.
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Sherwin
148 posts
Apr 13, 2014
6:56 AM
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Hey teba....check out Richard Sleigh harmonicas, go to his website and you can order the video series on customising from him. That must be the material that was mentioned.
Michael
Last Edited by Sherwin on Apr 13, 2014 6:59 AM
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harpwrench
814 posts
Apr 13, 2014
7:18 AM
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I'd flatten your arced tips down flush too, then slide a blade under the reed about halfway back. Gently raise it to create a gap about the thickness of the reed pad. Play very gentle chords and make micro adjustments as needed to even out response. Arzajac's belly flop strategy is probably better than what you have now but I disagree with his opinion about that being the path to best response.
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
High performance harmonicas.
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rockmonkeyguitars
58 posts
Apr 14, 2014
1:38 AM
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The reeds are now perfectly flat. Still having issues with the bend. I think I'm going to try playing it for a few day as see if that loosens it up.
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rockmonkeyguitars
66 posts
Apr 25, 2014
4:30 AM
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An update for anybody interested.
With all the adjustments made and playing the harp for a week it's bending didn't get any better so I decided to thin the blow reed down a little. Basically I tuned it up a half step by removing a bit from the tip then tuned it back down to where it should be by removing a bit from the base ultimately making the reed more flexible and in my case, more responsive. This fixed the problem and hole 3 bends just fine now. Has anybody else ever encountered an issue like this before?
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harpwrench
832 posts
Apr 25, 2014
5:52 AM
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Cheers for working it out mate. I imagine you improved something else in the process (reed curvature, offset nearer to the base). Usually scraping/sanding the brass that much back there changes the shape of the reed a little bit. But sometimes it's also a legit modification in itself to keep in the toolbox.
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
High performance harmonicas.
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