undertheradar
57 posts
Jan 08, 2014
7:47 AM
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I dont care for special 20's, or golden Melodys. Which of the three do you like best. I own them all, and all have subtle differences, which ones hold up the longest?
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Rick Davis
2830 posts
Jan 08, 2014
7:51 AM
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Why do you not like Special 20s? Just curious...
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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CarlA
421 posts
Jan 08, 2014
8:05 AM
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Golden melodies are great! Of all the ones I have played, they all OB holes 4-6 OOTB
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undertheradar
58 posts
Jan 08, 2014
8:11 AM
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I tend to draw too hard. Its a technique thing I guess, Im so used to some leakage on wooden combs.
Golden Melodys play great! I just dont want to spend the time retuning.
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Rick Davis
2831 posts
Jan 08, 2014
8:48 AM
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To answer your question, I prefer the Crossover harp, and it does stay in tune a long time. That may be because it is so airtight and responsive and I use less breath pressure.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Slimharp
83 posts
Jan 08, 2014
8:52 AM
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My experience from my playing style. First I like and play predominatly 20's. After doing a sealing on the comb and adding the 2 screws that are missing and opening up the cover plates they play well, reasonably loud and are sturdy. If you play hard and burn out 20's and GM's dont expect the others to hold up. Marine Bands and 20's are supposed to have the same reed plates. MB's are a little bit leaky but I think the problem is your playing, not the harp. Crossovers are much more responsive, loud and bright. They may hold up a bit longer but you will burn through those also at a much greater price. The BH is leaky and slow to respond from my experience. They may work for you. You may also try the Big River or the Huang diatonics. The Huang Star Performer and the other one I think its the Silvertone are very inexpensive and not best but play decent and very good for the price. Try one for about $15.00 it may surprise you. Unless you have bad reeds, huge reed slots, or a super super leaky harp, its usually you not the harp.
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Slimharp
84 posts
Jan 08, 2014
9:05 AM
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Hey Rick. I think the Crossover is an excellent harp, but for undertheradar drawing too hard and going through 20's and GM's, I think he will fry a Crossover, at what -- $72.00. My opine, the first issues seemed to last longer than the newer ones. Another thing. They are not fully sealed. I pull mine apart and find they have a touch of sealant on the comb way up just under the mouth piece. You may find if you flat sand them a tad and seal them they play way better.
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undertheradar
59 posts
Jan 08, 2014
9:11 AM
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I said I thought it was my playing... But its mighty funny I can get a couple years out of a wooden comb harp vs a year on a Sp20.
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Rick Davis
2832 posts
Jan 08, 2014
9:18 AM
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Slimharp, I think you are right.
The SP20 is my minimum giggable harp. It is great that you can walk into a music store and buy them off the shelf. I think they sound good and play well.
The Crossover sounds and plays better... much better I think. And it is possible it may help cure a player from playing too hard. I believe it did it for me, or maybe it was just a bit of maturity finally sinking in as I grow older.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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HarpNinja
3670 posts
Jan 08, 2014
9:26 AM
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Drawing too hard will be an issue with any quality harp as they are fairly airtight.
The SP20 is my favorite harp.
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Mike
My Website
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jiceblues
249 posts
Jan 08, 2014
9:28 AM
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I don't blow out reeds , but i like to play loud , with a huge and "roots" tone .Thats why i finally choosed the MS BLUES HARP .I think this harp is for old style playin' .If i was doin' OB & OD's , i should take a CROSS or a GM .My 2 cents .
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Rick Davis
2834 posts
Jan 08, 2014
9:41 AM
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I almost never overblow when gigging. I will -- on rare occasions -- hit the 6 OB just for shits and grins and to amuse my harp buddies. But I don't focus on it, I'm not very good at it, and it is not part of the requirement I have for harps. I like the Crossover for the tone and the even action from one hole to the next. The Marine Band Deluxe is similar but a bit more brassy to my ear. Most of my kit is Crossovers, Manjis, and customized Special 20s.
I don't care for any of the MS series of Hohner harps. As I said above, the SP20 is my minimum giggable harp.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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arzajac
1254 posts
Jan 08, 2014
9:47 AM
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"I tend to draw too hard. Its a technique thing I guess, Im so used to some leakage on wooden combs."
All of the mentioned harps are inconsistent. Some may be a little more consistent, but by and large, you could stumble upon a really airtight Marine Band 1896 out-of-the-box just like it's possible to find a leaky SP20. It's hit and miss.
And since you are compensating for your technique by using leaky harps, you will never find a brand that is going to be just right all of the time.
Bad habits are hard to break, but they are all breakable. You just need to put in a little time and focused effort. Maybe that's a better solution than looking for an out-of-the-box harp that suits your needs.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Jan 08, 2014 9:48 AM
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Seven.Oh.Three.
261 posts
Jan 08, 2014
10:37 AM
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I started out playing blues harps. I bought them because they said "Blues" on them and that's what I wanted to play... made sense at the time. I spent the first year really frustrated. I bought a Marine Band (I had seen them in the store previously but didn't buy them becaus the name sounded super dorky to me, haha) because that's what Adam was using in his videos and, from then on, things got a lot better for me.
As far as which one last the longest; it depends on the player. Personally after 3 years of playing I've yet to blow out a reed on any harp I've ever owned. Which includes: Marine bands, Marine band deluxes, Crossovers, Special 20's, Lee Oskar's and Golden melody's.
MBD's are my choice harp but for noodling in the car I keep a few special 20's.
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harpwrench
746 posts
Jan 08, 2014
10:42 AM
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GM, Sp20, MB's all share the exact same sexy reeds, they're just wearing different dresses. I can promise you that any difference in reed life has nothing to do with comb material. Getting a year out of a stock brass reed harp really isn't anything to sneeze at, many players go through them much quicker.
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HarpNinja
3671 posts
Jan 08, 2014
10:46 AM
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Joe, do you ever watch Trailer Park Boys? "Sexy reeds" made me think of Jim Lahey.
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Mike
My Website
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harpwrench
747 posts
Jan 08, 2014
10:52 AM
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Nope never heard of it-
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Slimharp
86 posts
Jan 08, 2014
11:29 AM
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Joe I agree with you. My 20's from you have lasted almost 2 years, though I play medium and only use them on gigs. I have had stock 20's last that long too, playing them regularly. You said GM - 20"s and MB have the same reeds. Do they have the same plates ie. reed slot sizes ?
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Rarko
82 posts
Jan 08, 2014
11:45 AM
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"GM, Sp20, MB's all share the exact same sexy reeds, they're just wearing different dresses."
hey, what about Hohner Happy Colour harp? I bought one for kids so they will leave my other harps alone LOL
is reedplate the same like GM's, sp20's...?
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harpwrench
748 posts
Jan 08, 2014
11:53 AM
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Slim the slots are all the same, aside from the minimal range of tolerances that come with tool wear. The novelty harps are different animals
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HarveyHarp
560 posts
Jan 08, 2014
12:25 PM
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There are a few minute differences in the relationship of the reeds to where you put your mouth, and also the comb slot lengths. I am not saying that this makes any differences in what this discussion is about, but it may. The marine band reeds, and I would assume that goes for the MBD and Crossover are the closest to where you put your mouth. Then next, is the Golden Melody, which is just a tad further from the front of the harp, and the Special 20 is the furthest away, mostly because of the comb. In addition, the Marine Band comb uses a short slot comb, on all keys higher than C, and to my knowledge, the Special 20s and the Golden Melodies do not. Of course, to my knowledge all of the aftermarket combs are long slot. Blue Moon, at one time, made a shot slot comb, though I do not think they do that any more.
I have put a few high keyed Special 20s on Marine Band short slot combs, and they seem to be more responsive, to me, perhaps because of the smaller air chamber.
Joe probably knows if these relationships make a lot of differenc or not.
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HarveyHarp
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Ugly Bones Ryan
28 posts
Jan 08, 2014
12:50 PM
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I like Marine Band Crossovers. They play the best, mainentance is the best, the tuning is great, the comb sounds amazing, the reeds are strong, and the cover plates are nice and open. 1896 Marine Bands have horrible mainentance but they play very well for the price. The tone of the doussie comb on the MS Blues Harp is good but it's not very airtight. I play Special 20's though because they're cheap and I love that the comb passes beyond the reedplate; easy to glissando.
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harpwrench
749 posts
Jan 08, 2014
1:47 PM
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I don't buy into reed distance from mouth affecting anything but the short slot combs are beneficial for high keys
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Todd Parrott
1172 posts
Jan 08, 2014
5:06 PM
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I would agree with Joe, and Randy Sandoval makes long and short slot combs, though I'm not sure how much he's working with harps these days. By the way, I think a customized Special 20 is a great harp, even in the recessed comb. I'm starting to like them a lot more. Even some of the stock ones lately seem to play much better than they did a few years ago.
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arzajac
1255 posts
Jan 08, 2014
6:38 PM
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I offer long and shot slot combs for all Marine Band types (1896, Deluxe, Crossover, 364) Golden Melody and Special 20. Although, I am not a fan of putting a sandwich-type comb in a SP20. Most people who love the Special 20 love the recessed-type comb.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Jan 08, 2014 6:39 PM
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groyster1
2503 posts
Jan 08, 2014
7:35 PM
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the best harp I have is stage 1 sp20 bought from rockinron done by harpwrench....sp20s are great,inexpensive harps anyway....I have many many mb1896s bought on ebay...when they play well they are hard to beat...golden melodys are great for ballads which I try to play more these days
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KeithE
223 posts
Jan 08, 2014
9:27 PM
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What do you guys do to improve the comfort of Special 20's? There are two things that bothered me as a tongue blocker. One is the left edge of the upper cover plate, and the other is some material left on the comb during manufacturing that creates a sharp edge. I've just basically tried to file these both to make them smoother. I don't have an unmodified Special 20 to look at, so am going from memory.
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HarpNinja
3673 posts
Jan 09, 2014
5:52 AM
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You can use wet/dry paper to round the edges.
Here is a pic of a polished comb compared to a used stock comb:
For just rounding the edges, 400 grit works fine (and fast). I think in stores you can get up to 1500 grit. I have much much finer than that, but had to find it online.
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Mike
My Website
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jiceblues
250 posts
Jan 09, 2014
7:46 AM
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For the edge of the coverplates , powder coated covers may help .
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A440
121 posts
Jan 09, 2014
9:18 AM
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Speaking of powder coated covers... I was looking at the ones on the Blue Moon website. Does anyone know if they change the tone or volume, compared to stock SP20 covers?
I was thinking it would be a cool way to color-code my country-tuned SP20s.
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jiceblues
251 posts
Jan 09, 2014
9:50 AM
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Yes , powder coated covers change a little bit the tone and the volume to the ears of the player .The audience don't ear any difference.The sound is smoother to my ears .And it's comfortable in mouth .Another good thing : the covers don't rust anymore .
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Slimharp
88 posts
Jan 10, 2014
10:39 AM
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This is slightly OT. About a year ago I bought a couple New "Vintage" MB's from a guy online, from some clearance from an old music store. The MB's were from the late 60's, early 70's. I thought "well thats what Butterfield and Jimmy Reed played" so I gave it a shot. They were brand new and from that period. They were so breathy they were almost unplayable. Come to find out the reed slots were so huge you could throw a cat between the reed and the slot. Oh well. They look pretty.
Sp 20's are easier on my lips, have a bit darker tone and respond well overall for me. I have gotten some outstanding 20's ootb. I do seal the comb, add 2 screws to the missing ones on the reed plates and open up the covers, maybe gap a little. They dont compare to Joe's but they play very well and are durable. Of course the MBD and Crossover's are great and I play them, but for the money you cant be a good 20.
There used to be a great harp out there that the SP 20 replaced. OLD STANDBY. I think they were the early 20. They were great and inexpensive. They came out after the GM and went away after the 20 got popular. Hohner makes one now from China in C only and they are crap.
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arzajac
1257 posts
Jan 10, 2014
10:57 AM
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Slimharp: Are you sure they were from the 60s and 70s? If you peek in through the back and look on the draw side, how many nails can you see? If you can see three, they are indeed from that period. If you can see two, those harps are from the period of time in the late 80s and early 90s where quality suffered. If they came in a cardboard box, the ink would be purple colored instead of blue, too, if they were from later on...
Typically, the MBs from the 60s have "Hicksville" on the box and they restore very very well.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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Slimharp
90 posts
Jan 10, 2014
11:22 AM
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Arzajac - three nails at bottom two on each side. The box trim is purplish blue and says M Hohner, Inc, Andrews Rd, Hicksville, L.I., N.Y. Maybe the reeds are just way way out due to heat changes, or the comb is super leaky. I just have an A. Gave the D away but could get it back.
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Frank
3675 posts
Jan 10, 2014
2:40 PM
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I try to have 5 of each key of the main harps used, ex: 5 "A" harps, 5 "G" harps etc, etc...and rotate them constantly, doing that is helpful keeping your harps goin along way. I got that tip reading a Dave Barrett artical years ago and it is really good advice :)
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capnj
177 posts
Jan 10, 2014
9:24 PM
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My two cents worth.Xo's the bloom is off the rose,the thrill is gone,but maybe thats price since i blow them out.Moderately heavy smoker for 44yrs,and blowing hard keeps the lungs working.Probably go to Joe's stage one Sps.
Have some old MBs that are in pretty good shape,should send to Arzajac.Bluesharp to many leaky ootb to mess with.
Special 20's retuned by MP in the keys of A and Bb kick ass.Special Steels keys of A,c and G,something magic about the tuning to my ears,and had greg jones redo some plates for me,great job.Suzuki Manji in D,and killer F Promaster suzuki alum. comb a good harp for funk,rb,and country,super projection tonality.E yikes about the same,should get a low E.
Good Ab,Eb,sp20s,and bought thrifty for Db,Hg,Lf,Ld,in the seydell blues sessions.My F# 40yr old mb always there when you rarely need it.Listen up guys I ain't lying,dam stole a Charlie M line.
Last Edited by capnj on Jan 10, 2014 9:31 PM
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