walterharp
1265 posts
Dec 26, 2013
3:41 PM
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One of the biggest sins is playing over the vocals, but some have pulled it off. Two examples I can think of.. Terry and McGee... pretty much every song, Walter Horton on Jimmie Rogers Walking by Myself... the solo being one of the greatest and his playing over vocals is with the melody. Any other notable examples.???
Last Edited by walterharp on Dec 26, 2013 3:42 PM
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1847
1429 posts
Dec 26, 2013
3:45 PM
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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1847
1430 posts
Dec 26, 2013
3:47 PM
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of coarse anything done by me lol
oh wait you said good examples
mine would be a bad example!
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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1847
1431 posts
Dec 26, 2013
3:54 PM
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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1847
1432 posts
Dec 26, 2013
3:57 PM
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Barley Nectar
223 posts
Dec 26, 2013
4:02 PM
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I don't think this is a problem on the chorus as long as you drop back a good bit and blend in. After all, the drums, keys and guitar usually play during the chorus. Someone has to carry the song...BN
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Rarko
77 posts
Dec 26, 2013
4:22 PM
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and check out this scene at 0:30 :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydLGMk0_E8o
Last Edited by Rarko on Dec 26, 2013 4:23 PM
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Greg Heumann
2526 posts
Dec 26, 2013
4:45 PM
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Playing OVER vocals is almost always a BAD thing.
Playing DURING vocals however is not.
The key is to play UNDER the vocals.
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/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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harpfox
16 posts
Dec 26, 2013
4:55 PM
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i recently learned this the hard way...i played too much and played over the singer..did not pass over well with the band..
good adviceee!
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Tuckster
1381 posts
Dec 26, 2013
4:56 PM
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Totally agree with Greg. I'm drawn to playing vocal lines like a moth to a flame. I've found it bothers some vocalist even when you play underneath them. I usually test the waters with a vocalist I haven't played with before to see how they react.
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clyde
326 posts
Dec 26, 2013
5:12 PM
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playing under the vocals is something most of the band does....no big deal. but tuckster come on......... do you really play the vocal lines with the singer? hope not.
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Slimharp
81 posts
Dec 26, 2013
5:56 PM
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I'll do a tap and the end of the verse or turnaround but I stay away from vocal lines, good way to piss somebody off.
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Tuckster
1382 posts
Dec 26, 2013
8:49 PM
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Admittedly,it was a bad habit that I've mostly cured,but I'll still play the vocal line after the vocalist sings it. It only works sometimes. :>)
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Greg Heumann
2527 posts
Dec 26, 2013
11:12 PM
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I think what you're talking about is an "echo" - the singer sings a line and there is room to "echo" that line before the singer's next phrase. That IS OK if not done every verse - and if OK with the singers. Some singers don't like you to play at all while they're playing. Some guitar players don't like you to play at all while they're soloing. But if you're tasty, leave room for other instruments to fill on some of the verses, most of the time it is appreciated.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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Joe_L
2424 posts
Dec 27, 2013
12:24 AM
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First, it's Jimmy Rogers.
Second, Big Walter did this quite a bit. Check out his work as an accompanist. His playing is very rhythmic and melodic. His volume is always at a lower level than the vocalist.
In order to do this effectively, you've got to do a lot of listening, you've got to be disciplined and you have to understand what the vocalist wants. One last thing, whatever you play has to fit.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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jbone
1453 posts
Dec 27, 2013
3:14 AM
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Too true Joe. Especially in blues, we must remember that harmonica has been referred to as the instrument closest to the human voice. This being the case, we do hear call and response between two voices and the harp can mimic this as well.
In the duo with Jolene I am expected to do a lot of fill and accent stuff yet not step on her vocals. We've been working together long enough to be able to work this out without ego stuff. Lately I am not singing at all so a polyp on my vocal cord will clear up, and this is an opportunity for us to focus even more on her vocals, both with and without harp being involved.
Last project I was in besides Jawbone and Jolene, the guy wanted a lot of harp in the background, somewhat like what Muddy and Walter had going. Walter was a true pro at staying in back and no doubt this was due in part to Muddy's unique vision of what a song needed.
I don't claim to be anywhere near Walter but in spirit I try and get close to what he did with Muddy.
At a jam or as a guest I try and use a lot of care when doing accents and fills. Especially with multiple guitars, keys, brass, whatever on stage, there is less and less room for the harp to work, and I stay mindful of this. It's just good manners.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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walterharp
1266 posts
Dec 27, 2013
6:34 PM
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seems like many of the examples are from back when a blues band had a harp player who was always part of the mix, and nowadays singers are used to having guitars going all the time during the song, but the harp stands out to their ear as infringing on their space.. or you need to be a singer to bring harp into a band and it is difficult to do both at the same time..
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wolfkristiansen
257 posts
Dec 28, 2013
3:55 AM
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Walterharp, thank you for revisiting this issue, and Rarko, thank you for pointing us to Little Walter's harp on "Forty Days and Forty Nights". This song is forever on my list of top ten Muddy Waters songs, for its harp, vocals, and lyrics.
Harp can be played during vocals, if it's done right. Walter plays all over the vocals, but it works. Who would disagree?. It's a duet, really-- Muddy Waters and Little Walter, both screaming their blues from their chosen voices, be it larynx or brass reed.
Why does it work here? Because of what others have said here-- the harp is rhythmic and played (mostly) at a lower volume than the singer's.
Contrary to the Walter Horton references, it's not echoing the melody. It's sounding other notes that fit harmonically. That works even better.
In this song, Little Walter is not following the call and response pattern that harp players, including me, fall back on; i.e. when in doubt answer the singer when he/she pauses to take a breath.
Walter doesn't have to. Pat Hare, on guitar, is doing it for the singer and for the band. Listen to how the guitar answers the voice. It works. It frees Walter to go wherever his muse takes him. Thus the beautiful result; a perfect example of harp over/under vocals and its power when done well.
For whoever's interested, here are Muddy's backup musicians for Forty Days and Forty Nights:
Little Walter, harmonica; Willie Dixon, bass; Fred Below or Francis Clay, drums; Pat Hare, guitar; Jimmy Rogers, second guitar.
Here are the lyrics, dealing with this universal blues topic, but more poetically than usual:
Forty days and forty nights
Since my baby left this town
Sun Shinin' all day long
But the rain keeps comin' down
She's my life I need her so
Why she left I just don't know
Forty days and forty nights
Since I set right down and cried
Keep rainin' all the time
But the river is runnin' dry
Lord help me it just ain't right
I love that girl with all-a my might
Forty days and forty nights
Since my baby broke my heart
Searchin' for her in a while
Like a blind man in the dark
Love can make a poor man rich
Or break his heart I don't know which
[instrumental break]
Forty days and forty nights
Like a ship out on the sea
Prayin' for her each night
That she would come back a-home to me
Life is love and love is right
I hope she come back home tonight
For years, I heard "Life is love and love is life" in the second-to-last line. Powerful stuff. I was slightly disappointed when I heard the exact lyrics as shown here. Still a great song, though!
Happy New Year.
wolf kristiansen
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CarlA
417 posts
Dec 28, 2013
4:58 AM
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"walterharp
1266 posts
Dec 27, 2013
6:34 PM seems like many of the examples are from back when a blues band had a harp player who was always part of the mix, and nowadays singers are used to having guitars going all the time during the song, but the harp stands out to their ear as infringing on their space.. or you need to be a singer to bring harp into a band and it is difficult to do both at the same time.."
BINGO! Walterharp hit the nail on the head!!
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garry
482 posts
Dec 28, 2013
1:53 PM
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@greg: and some guitar players don't like you to play if they're in the room.
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