TBird
25 posts
Nov 20, 2013
5:36 PM
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I stumbled across a video a while back (a David Barrett interview with Gary Smith) that included some great playing and some really cool riffs. The playing showcased in the video is far beyond my current abilities, but I recently thought it would be fun to watch it carefully and very slowly tab out some of the riffs that might give my something to work towards.
So… I sat down with paper, pencil, a C harp, and a finger ready to hit the pause button many, many times. Sounds like a recipe for fun, right? Nope! I got schooled. Sure, I was able to pick up a few things, but mainly I was baffled by my inability to figure out much of what I was hopping to start working on.
My question is what do YOU guys do when you are trying to learn something that your ear just can't quite decipher? Does it simply mean I should be patient a back up a bit to some stuff that is more suitable to my skill level?
Just curious,
T.Bird
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didjcripey
659 posts
Nov 20, 2013
5:54 PM
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I reckon you should practice whatever turns you on. If you're inspired by something, it is easier to focus on and enjoy.
You might find that its beyond your ability at the moment due to techniques that you don't know, so some of your practice would be well spent on making sure you know what techniques (slaps, pulls, octaves etc) are being used and how they sound in a musical context.
You may not be able to play the piece well, but you'll probably find that when you come back to it further down the road it is easy to do.
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Lucky Lester
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Rhartt1234
109 posts
Nov 20, 2013
6:13 PM
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I can think of a few licks that took me years to figure out. Usually, it was a matter of my technique catching up to my ear.
I'd hear something, try and work it out and then give up on it. A while later I'd try it again and maybe I'd get to the point where I could figure out the notes, or identify the technique or techniques involved, but couldn't put it all together. Eventually, when all the conditions are right it comes together and even with some serious work I wonder what all the fuss was about.
Simple fact is, if you don't work at it, it won't come.
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Komuso
218 posts
Nov 20, 2013
7:23 PM
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Do you have a link to the video?
I'll run it though http://harpninja.com and see how it tabs out.
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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wolfkristiansen
237 posts
Nov 20, 2013
11:27 PM
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Hi TBird-- when I want to learn a harmonica solo, or harmonica part, or even sax part I'm trying on harmonica, I play it through WinAmp on my computer and use one of the many plug-ins for the player that slow music down considerably while keeping the pitch.
Sometimes slowing music down lets you hear what's going on, in a way you can't hear at the normal tempo. Here are 3 WinAmp plugins that will do this:
Pacemaker Tempo Controller
Roni Music Slow Me Down
Chronotron II
Chronotron is my favorite.
I'm sure there are similar plug-ins for the computer music player of your choice. A sound editing program like Audacity (free), will also do this, but not in real time. The plug-ins let you vary the speed as you are hearing the song. They will slow music down severely or slightly; whatever you need. Google for them and you will probably find them. I can't remember which were free and which you had to pay for.
A bonus-- they will also play a song faster than the original while keeping the pitch. This is a good thing.
I slow music down to the point where I can both hear the notes and play them. I play them at that speed till I'm comfortable. I repeat the process, at ever increasing speeds, until I can play the song at the original tempo.
Then I go one step further-- I play the song on WinAmp faster than the original, and learn to play it at that speed! The reason-- if you've just barely learned to keep up at the normal speed, you are going to make mistakes in the notes and timing, because you are at the edge of your ability in that song. If you learn to play it even faster, your original-tempo version will be relaxed and more accurate in notes and timing.
Before anyone jumps on me, I know, always, that memorizing solos or harmonica parts cannot, in itself, be the route to original or even good harmonica playing. But it's a great way to hone your chops and, for me at least, force me out of my comfort zone, especially regarding the rhythmic patterns and phrasing I fall into if given half a chance.
Good luck with your endeavor, (for you Brits, endeavour) TBird.
wolf kristiansen
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TBird
26 posts
Nov 21, 2013
11:53 AM
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Thanks! This has been very encouraging and insightful. Just for the record, here's the video I was referring to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uyEH_Cjkgw
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barbequebob
2385 posts
Nov 21, 2013
12:24 PM
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When I started back in the 70's, I had none of the stuff like what wolfkristiansen mentions or stuff like slomo or any of these other things and what I had to learn with was with vinyl, and if I had a 78, I turned the speed down to 45, 45 to 33, and 33 to 16 to slow it down, but unlike any of those others, the pitch always dropped automatically an octave down.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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The Iceman
1285 posts
Nov 21, 2013
12:30 PM
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Kids have it easy these days with digital slow down programs.
Like Bob sez above, us analog dudes had to use other tools and learn to listen faster and/or make adjustments for the drop in pitches.
I think it made us stronger and better musicians, as we didn't have the easy tools to give us those musical lines.
Increase your listening comprehension speed slowly over time...different than playing the harmonica.
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The Iceman
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Buzadero
1160 posts
Nov 21, 2013
3:33 PM
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"I think it made us stronger and better musicians, as we didn't have the easy tools to give us those musical lines."
And, all that barefoot walking to school in the snow made for much better tone.
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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Komuso
220 posts
Nov 21, 2013
3:57 PM
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Walking to school in the snow?
THAT WAS LUXURY!
Let me tell you...
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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wolfkristiansen
238 posts
Nov 21, 2013
4:46 PM
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Who let the four Yorkshiremen in here?
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Udderkuz03
32 posts
Nov 21, 2013
6:40 PM
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Digitech rp355 has the slowdown to degrees with no pitch change...
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nacoran
7360 posts
Nov 21, 2013
8:58 PM
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I find if I can't whistle the basics of something I'm not ready to conquer it on the harp. I guess I had years of learning to sing or whistle along with songs before I picked up the harp, and there is still some translation going on in my brain from the muscle memory of singing/whistling to finding the notes on the harp. It's sort of a way to internalize it. The longer I play, the less I need to do it, but I still try to get the feel for songs I'm learning, really feel it, before I try it on harp.
That said, I do that less and less, and I do some of my melody writing on the harp now, then translate them back, but I think it's easier that direction.
So, my approach would be to listen over and over and sort of internalize it, and then attack it.
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Nate
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Komuso
221 posts
Nov 22, 2013
4:23 PM
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I played around a little with HarpNinja as a little analysis exercise so here's the results.
I can only analyze melody at the moment, not chords so it drops out when they are playing chords, but sometimes catches the octaves. Ideally I would need just the harmonica track to analyze, as the backing track in the mix makes it a difficult for the pitch recognition sometimes, especially in the bottom octave.
The slowdown was with Audacity Tempo effect -50% and -30%, not the best one on the market but seems to still keep it in pitch more or less.
Still, gives you the general flow of the licks though I think. It's easy enough to fill in the rest with your ears once you get the map of what/where they are playing.
David Barrett kindly gave me permission to post the video.
This ones at 50% speed
This ones at 30% speed
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Nov 22, 2013 5:12 PM
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TBird
27 posts
Nov 23, 2013
2:18 PM
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Pretty cool Komuso. Thanks for taking the time to do that!
Nacoran - I think you're right on: whistle then play. I often find myself doing that without thinking about it.
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SuperBee
1551 posts
Nov 23, 2013
4:23 PM
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I cottoned on to the whistling idea very early on. Only problem was that sometimes I would discover that what I was whistling was not how the song went.
Like...I'd learn to play the tune I whistled, then sometimes I'd find a transcription of the tune and realise i didn't play it like that. Often when I tried to play these transcriptions, I'd find I had been simplifying the tune. It was a good lesson; taught me to listen more carefully.
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JellyShakersTipJar
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TBird
28 posts
Nov 24, 2013
10:00 AM
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Right on SuperBee. That is really the problem that prompted me to make the original post. I would think I was whistling the tune correctly, but then realize I was actually just whistling what I wanted to hear, or find myself inadvertently slurring past something I wasn't certain about. All of this becomes painfully obvious when trying to translate to the harp.
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Littoral
1009 posts
Nov 24, 2013
1:04 PM
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I think it's worth noting that the licks in this video pretty much kick ass and are really difficult.
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GamblersHand
475 posts
Nov 24, 2013
1:39 PM
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Ronnie Shellist's video / instruction "Funky Blues harmonica" also works off an up-tempo Tramp groove
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