Martin
521 posts
Nov 14, 2013
5:18 AM
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A friend has asked me to put some blues harp on a record he´s making (more of a hobby project than commercial, but they have found a certain something).
We started out this Monday, and I put my RP 150 straight into the board, using some sounds from Richard Hunter´s patches, and some I´ve concocted myself (with more than a little help from a friend).
However, in the rehearsal room we´re using for a studio there are also an assortment of amplifiers. Among them one Fender Super Reverb and a couple of Peaveys, one of them "Classic", can´t remember the other one but it was also a tweed thing.
Now I wonder: while I was quite happy with a few sounds from the RP, a couple of them was decidedly thin and "electric" and those cuts will be canned.
This is a small room, and you can´t go really loud -- but still: would I profit from using the Fender or the Peaveys?
We´re talking Chicago blues and we´re striving for a rough, distorted sound. No surprises there.
Quite contrary to some people here on the forum, I´m not wild about trying out amps and tend to get a bit of a headache in the process (also like my harp rather clean). But if any of you good natured gentlemen gives me well informed advice I will tell my friend that I´m going to need some extra time next session for fiddling with an amp or two.
I have microphones (a Beyer dynamic, a Green Bullet, an SM 57 etc) at my hands, so that´s no problem, but I´d really appreciate some guidance in the amp section.
Cheers
/Martin
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HawkeyeKane
2157 posts
Nov 14, 2013
6:12 AM
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Without knowing which Peavey Classic models they are, my gut would say go with the Super. Some Peavey Classics work well for harp, others are either too clean, or feedback nightmares. The Fender will definitely take care of you.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Martin
523 posts
Nov 14, 2013
9:46 AM
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Thanks Hawkeye,
Would you say the good stuff is hard to dial in on that Fender? For a tech imbecile?
Feedback shouldn´t be a prob here generally -- we´re talking low volumes, really small space.
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Rick Davis
2681 posts
Nov 14, 2013
11:31 AM
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Martin, for recording situations like that players usually use a small 5-watt amp. The Super Reverb will be massive overkill. Does a friend have a Champ or similar amp you can borrow for the session?
If you are stuck with the choices you saw in the studio Tim is right: The Super Reverb would probably be the best choice but its tone will be limited because you will have to play it at such a low volume in a small space.
Good luck. Please post a sample of the recording if you can.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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HawkeyeKane
2158 posts
Nov 14, 2013
11:33 AM
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Well...it'll depend on which mic you're using and exactly how confined the recording room will be. To get the Chicago tone you're wanting, you'll need to get the amp turned up to a certain point where it begins to break up. On bigger amps, especially Fenders, that can be pretty high on the dial. Fenders are known for their cleanliness. If it were me, I'd maybe use the 2nd input for lower gain, and try both the bright and dark settings with the switch to see what works and/or sounds better. The EQ you'll need to dial in to taste, and the reverb level down low if you use it at all. I've seen Super Reverbs used in live settings by different harp players with great success, but getting the tone you want without feedback in a recording booth will just take a little bit of trial and error. That's why I usually use a smaller amp in a booth as Rick just suggested.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Nov 14, 2013 11:34 AM
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Martin
524 posts
Nov 14, 2013
11:53 AM
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Aha I see. Problems.
The smallest amp available was that Peavey Classic.
I guess I can try various combos w/ the RP pedal -- or use my 5 watt Roland ... but it´s no greater tube sound there.
Maybe the RP is the best in the end. Shit.
My primitive thought was that it was somehow possible to emphasize the gain/overdrive if you could settle for a really low volume.
My lack of interest in the amplification side of the harmonica business comes back to haunt me.
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LSC
533 posts
Nov 15, 2013
7:56 AM
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Here's my two cents worth. First option, as Rick said, see if the guitar player can locate a Champ or similar low watt tube amp, operative word "tube".
2nd option: If the Peavey Classic is the 30 watt version try that using the non-effect channel. You'll want tone controls set to minimize treble.
3rd option: If you have headphone monitoring and the studio lay out permits, try putting the Super Reverb in another room so you can crank it to break up volumes. Or you could surround it with mattresses or some such. The idea is to isolate it so it's not bleeding into the other instruments if recording ensemble or, if recording the harp as an overdub, so as to control feedback and ear shredding.
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LSC
Last Edited by LSC on Nov 15, 2013 7:57 AM
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6SN7
391 posts
Nov 15, 2013
8:24 AM
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No sense piling on.....as the posters say, go with the low watt amp. Or at least a single speaker amp. Your RP might be the best bet, sounds like you cn dial in what your friend desires.
I have always owned larger amps and I am a recent convert to a 5 watt amp. Best money I have spent as I use it for all rehearsals , in my house for goofing around.
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HawkeyeKane
2160 posts
Nov 15, 2013
9:00 AM
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LSC makes good points. Even a Classic 20 would probably work for recording, but a 30 of a Delta Blues 210 could also work dialed in as LSC says, and also try moving it out of the room or shielding it to avoid feedback. I've seen a few studios who also have feedback killers on hand, and though probably not one designed with harpin mind, it'd probably work in a pinch.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Martin
528 posts
Nov 15, 2013
9:38 AM
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Thanks a lot guys. Good advice. I´ve announced to the guy that I´ll be needing an hour or so for set up time ... (And I´ll bring aspirin.)
Been trying right now to record some soundfiles of my new RP settings, and thought to put them on YT, but that absolutely hellacious program Audacity doesn´t work anymore. Worked a few months ago but not now. Probably the most erratic and least user friendly software in the history of mankind.
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Barley Nectar
183 posts
Nov 15, 2013
9:53 AM
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I think Rick nailed it. That Super has too much gain and power to be usefull for driven blues tone, in that enviorment. If those are the old Peavey 2x12 Classics with the hybred circuit, forget them. Small TUBE amp is the way to go.
You could put couch coushins on both sides of a big amp and stick the mic inside the cab. This will work and prevent feedback...BN
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HarpNinja
3593 posts
Nov 15, 2013
10:11 AM
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One of the dark blue Champ patches from Richard would probably end up sounding great. In the studio, even recording direct, the engineer should have a preamp it can be ran through to warm it up if need be.
My thoughts...
Record it direct with no effects. Have the engineer insert the RP or emulators or whatever in post production.
OR
Record direct and split the signal between the RP255 and a dry line.
Here is a recording with the RP255. It sounds pretty clean as that is my preference in tone.
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Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
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bublnsqueak
10 posts
Nov 15, 2013
1:02 PM
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I am a novice at all this. However, I have been wondering if something like this might do the valve stuff while your RP handles the other effects:
EBay item no:281104929705
Apologies if I'm very wide of the mark.
Nice playing BTW
Paul
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Martic
54 posts
Nov 17, 2013
2:21 PM
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Does RP150 have EQ effect? You could equalize the pedal to push the amp and get overdrive at lower volume, like a booster. Then you just choose the amp you like more, with no worries about power.
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HawkeyeKane
2162 posts
Nov 17, 2013
2:32 PM
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@bublnsqueak
I have a Tube MP. I kinda doubt the unit would help with an RP. I could be wrong though....experimentation on someone's part would solve the riddle for sure. Thing about RP's is they're defaultedly programed as modelers, meaning they're emulating an existing amplifier. Hunter's patches are programmed presets to get good harp tone. You start mixing that with analog preamplification, there's no telling what could result.
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Hawkeye Kane
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