asilve3
54 posts
Dec 14, 2009
12:31 PM
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Anybody have this harmonica? Looking for opinions and info! Pretty cool piece I think.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/asilve3
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2009 12:32 PM
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Kingley
533 posts
Dec 14, 2009
12:39 PM
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I had one once. Very nice harp, although a little "bright" for my taste.
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Gwythion
34 posts
Dec 14, 2009
1:01 PM
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Wouldn't it be brilliant if you could sound like the Doors at full blast with one of these?
Was there anything "Hammondy" about the tone, Kingley?
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hvyj
18 posts
Dec 14, 2009
1:08 PM
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I've got 13 Suzuki Hammonds which I use for performing. These have been my performing set for over 2 years of regular use and i haven't had a reed go bad yet. Excellent compression. Even tone through all registers. Very responsive. Very durable. Best out of the box harps I have ever played.
Btw, I would not characterize the tone of the Hammonds as being "bright." To my ear, their tone is darker and more focused than the tone of Hohners or Lee Oskars, and even somewhat darker than Suzuki Promasters. They are tuned to ET which is my preference. Love my Hammonds!
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Kingley
534 posts
Dec 14, 2009
1:09 PM
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Gwythion, Lol! Not at all!
It has a metal comb so that makes it a little brighter sounding.
Overall a really nice harp, the best Suzuki harp I have ever played (I have never tried a Manji though).
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2009 12:24 AM
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hvyj
19 posts
Dec 14, 2009
1:55 PM
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Tonal characteristics can be a somewhat subjective assessment, but I had been using a set of Hohner MS Pro Harps before I switched to Suzuki Hammonds and, to my ear, the tone of my Hammonds is darker and more focused than the tone of my Pro Harps, even though the Pro Harps have plastic combs. This may (or may not) have something to do with the shorter reed profile of the Suzukis. But opinions about tone can certainly vary.
Objectively speaking, the compression (air tightness and reed/plate tolerances) on the Hammonds is definitely superior to any out of the box Hohner I've ever played. This is not subjective.
Because of better compression, these harps also sound louder than Hohners if each is played with the same level of air pressure. Sometimes volume can be confused with brightness. Anyway, I really like the way the Hammonds sound and how they respond.
Btw, the holes are slightly closer together than they are on Hohners or LOs, so there may be a little adjustment period if you switch.
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2009 2:31 PM
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CJames
72 posts
Dec 14, 2009
7:24 PM
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Looks really nice, im looking at trying an upmarket suzuki, either a firebreath or hammond. the pureharp looks interesting to me as well, im intrigued as to how an all wood body would sound. Does anyone have an opinion on the rosewood used in the firebreath and pureharp?
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hvyj
20 posts
Dec 14, 2009
9:35 PM
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I have a set of 10 Firebreaths that I carry as spares. Very nice, high quality harps and the rosewood combs do NOT swell. Compression and response is similar to the Hammonds, but the tone is more versatile and a little more open sounding compared to the slightly more focused tone of the Hammonds. The Hammonds may also have slightly more volume than the Firebreaths, but not by much.
The Hammonds (and ProMasters) have nickle plated reedplates. The Firebreath reedplates are brass. Holes on the Firebreaths are close spaced like on the Hammonds and Promasters. But the Firebreaths have a little different feel than the Hammonds since the Hammonds have metal combs. These higher end Suzukis are both terrific harps with superior compression.
I have one Pureharp. I don't like the wood covers and I don't particularly like the tone of the Pureharp, either. It is more difficult to play even though the reeds, comb and reedplates are the same as the Firebreath, and the sound does not project quite as well as the Firebreath or the Hammond.
Now, these are all ET harps. I happen to have a strong preference for ET since i play in multiple positions. I think non-ET harps sound out of tune if you are playing in anything but first second and third positions (too many flat notes!).
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2009 9:52 PM
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nineveh_harp
21 posts
Dec 14, 2009
10:21 PM
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I have a HA-20 in C and I love it!!! To my ears, the tone is just a little warmer than the normal Promaster. I will buy more HA-20s in the future. I also prefer ET since I play a lot of 4th and 5th position in addition to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. The tone on all Promasters that I've played has been generally brighter than most of my Hohners, but not quite as bright as my Seydel 1847s.
-Sam
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Delta Dirt
62 posts
Dec 15, 2009
9:00 AM
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Got an A and an F. Both workhorses on the chitlin stops. Little more narrower comb.
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ness
127 posts
Dec 15, 2009
9:14 AM
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@CJames -- re: Firebreath
The rosewood certainly looks good. It's sealed very well on the edges, but if you open it up it's not sealed on the top and bottom. I've never had an issue with the interior becoming wet, but I can't say I've really put it through a hard workout. Effect on tone -- who knows? But, I really like the sound, and I haven't done a thing to the reeds.
One gripe about the Firebreath -- the decals are simply water-slide, and subject to chipping or flaking off.
FWIW, the coverplates are painted with a tough enamel, and seem to be quite durable. They're very slick.
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2009 9:14 AM
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ness
128 posts
Dec 15, 2009
9:19 AM
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I never really understood the Hammond thing. "Mouth organ" certainly isn't a term I hear very much. And, there's nothing particularly unique or 'organ-like' about it to differentiate it from Promasters, that I'm aware of anyway. The name just seems a little corny.
Still a nice looking harp, and I'm sure it's right up there with their other similar models.
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hvyj
21 posts
Dec 15, 2009
12:55 PM
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Suzuki bought the Hammond organ company a few years ago and now makes organs under the "Suzuki Hammond" brand name, so that's where the name comes from.
I think the Hammonds do have a somewhat darker and warmer tone than the ProMasters (which I think sound very BRIGHT) and the tone of the Hammonds also seems more even through the registers.
Although the Promasters and Hammonds are similar and use the same reedplates, the Hammonds are better instruments. I think this may be because the black combs of the Hammonds are machined better than the ProMaster combs. I don't like ProMasters all that well, and I've never used them for peformance. But I am in love with my Hammonds.
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2009 1:03 PM
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528hemi
61 posts
Dec 15, 2009
1:19 PM
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I have one in C and it is a great harp OOTB. I like it better then my promaster and a close second to my Manji's.
I also like it better then my Firebreath which I I really do not like at all. Funny we all have our own favorites.....
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KingoBad
151 posts
Dec 15, 2009
1:36 PM
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If you hook it up to a Leslie cabinet it sounds great!
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DaDoom
147 posts
Dec 15, 2009
11:43 PM
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It's a very nice harp. High quality manufacturing. I love the sound and the way they respond. Bends are absolutely easy and precise. OBs are not it's strength though. They tend to squeal.
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snakes
414 posts
Dec 16, 2009
4:11 PM
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Have to say I really like the Fire Breath. My favorite OOTB harmonica. I haven't tried the Hammond, though...
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Tiggertoo1962
103 posts
Apr 20, 2016
4:01 PM
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Got a chance til tomorrow to pick up a couple of these 2nd hand for a decent price. Was wondering if anyone can give me a direct comparison between these and the Seydel Blues Session, since they both have full length covers.
I'm not too keen on the Seydel - not because of the covers as such, but because it feels so "fat" or "thick" in my mouth. Is the Hammond also like this, or is the thickness more like a SP20 or Manji? I've caught that the hole spacing is a little tighter than standard, but it's more the thickness I'm interested in.
Cheers guys
Fin
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One of the last of a dying breed.
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Goldbrick
1395 posts
Apr 20, 2016
4:43 PM
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My favorite harp
Comb looks slightly thicker than my Marine Band Deluxe . The Hammond feels quite a bit more substantial in the hands which I like. I have 3 Hammond and have never even gapped them - they all played OTB with the standard bends
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Killa_Hertz
1123 posts
Apr 20, 2016
8:03 PM
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I hear such good things about this harp. Why is it not more popular?
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ValleyDuke
25 posts
Apr 20, 2016
8:19 PM
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I got a Hammond and swapped the covers on a Promaster - it did change the timbre of the Promaster.
The Hammond powder coating is best surface I've tried for my lips, the chrome Promaster being 2nd best.
I have a set of Promasters, and I'd love a matching set of Hammonds.
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Gnarly
1747 posts
Apr 20, 2016
8:29 PM
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HA-20 is a ProMaster with laquered cover plates and comb--reed plates are the same.
I like them a lot! But have grown to like the Manji (I'm still playing SP20s a lot).
The HA-20 feels good in the hand and sounds great--but I would tune them more just--I think I already have--but then, I combine reed plates, combs and cover plates, my favorite seems to be the HamManji--Manjis with Hammond cover plates.
Oh yeah, one year warranty--I almost forgot!
Last Edited by Gnarly on Apr 20, 2016 8:30 PM
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STME58
1656 posts
Apr 20, 2016
9:00 PM
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Because the Hammond comb is black anodized rather then clear anodized like the ProMaster, it is much less likely to get a comb with holes in the anodizing leading to a galvanic reaction between reed plate and comb. If the black anodize were thin it would be visually obvious.
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SuperBee
3628 posts
Apr 20, 2016
11:23 PM
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Some people like them.
If you like metal combs and lacquered covers, full-length unvented covers, and ET tuning...you might think they're good.
I have nothing against ET in the right application, but the rest is all the stuff I don't like.
Plus, it's made by Suzuki, so welded reeds, no spare individual reeds available. More stuff I dislike.
And the metal comb is likely to be to the same inconsistent standard as other Suzuki metal combs.
On the other hand, they're quite solid and can be thrown fairly accurately so quite good for hunters.
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Grey Owl
713 posts
Apr 21, 2016
1:18 AM
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@ Superbee 'On the other hand, they're quite solid and can be thrown fairly accurately so quite good for hunters.' :)
I can't help but think the Seydel Boomerang would be a better bet though;)
I only have one Hammond. I was very impressed when I first bought it. It does feel nice and solid in the hand and looks good. It is the only harp that had all the overblows and overdraws there straight OOTB. The tone is nice, darker than the Promaster and not full on like the Manji. I'm with Superbee here though regarding the covers and comb I don't really care for them anymore.
I would still use it for ET melodies especially when using Overblows as they are so stable. HERE is one I did with the Hammond without a backing track and just acoustic so you can hear its natural tone.
No, the Hammond doesn't feel so big in the mouth as the Seydel (Steel). The covers especially at the front are noticeably bigger than the Hammond. Funnily enough the hole openings are a fraction bigger on the Hammond but the spaces beteween are noticeably bigger on the Seydel. Although the spaces between the holes look the same on the 2 harps on the face of the combs they chamfer out wider on the Seydel as they go into the channels.
However,I do like the Seydel's, they just take a bit of getting used to.
YouTube
Last Edited by Grey Owl on Apr 21, 2016 4:29 AM
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jbone
2173 posts
Apr 21, 2016
3:33 AM
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I have and use Manji mostly but also have one Pure, which is a smooth warm sounding harp. I don't beat it up since it's such a beauty. Good tight instrument.
I have one Hammond in Eb which does not get a lot of use, but works well when I do get it out. Guitarist does not care much for the keys F and Bb but I wrote the title song to the current CD in F so the Hammond sees use there.
Hammond and Manji are pretty different to me. Manji is a somewhat harsher sound and is a great knockaround, every gig type harp. I busk with mine as well as do cafe/bar gigs. A lot of the 2 CD's we have out are done with Manji as the harp of choice. If I had more Hammonds I could say more about them but my impression is, the Hammond is a smoother more even sound.
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Killa_Hertz
1124 posts
Apr 21, 2016
4:26 AM
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I really was into the manjis alot, until about a week or two ago. I started back on a few tradebit lessons. For some reason i started playing my Marine bands alot more. (I mean is not a mystery. I stared playing them again because im trying to imitate a sound more like adams playing that im hearing in the lessons.)
But in doing so, I have really fell back to the old marine band. I just feel i can get subtle sounds out of them that i can't get with the manjis heavier reeds.
Does that jive with anyone else's experience?
(Not to start a whole off topic rant. But the manji and hammond reeds are surely similar. So i guess not SO off topic.)
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Grey Owl
715 posts
Apr 21, 2016
4:37 AM
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Killa. that's the trouble with harps, you can go on & off them for no apparent reason. Just when I think I have abandoned the MB's due to their feeling small and uncomfortable I pick one up one day and think they're great!! Their tone is undefinably special whereas the Manji's just seem, to my ears, to be a loud harp with less subtlety. Having said that I still play my only one from time to time.
YouTube
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Killa_Hertz
1126 posts
Apr 21, 2016
5:35 AM
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Well the sound, feel, and all that of the manji is great. And the crossover is nice and rounded so is not as uncomfortable.
But the manjis reeds just aren't as easy to play. They just don't activate as easily as the marine band. Adds more expressiveness. I tend to have alot of missed or light sounding notes when playing soft on the manji. (Which is how i play alot of the time. )
But the crossover is just too damned expensive.
I think I'm going back to modified 1896s.
Your right though. I tend to switch harps like my socks. It's hard to stick to one model. But i have been playing so much better and been able to learn songs so much faster, since going back to the Marine band.
Just wondered if anyone has had similar issues with the suzuki reeds.
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florida-trader
899 posts
Apr 21, 2016
7:02 AM
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Couple of thoughts since there still seems to be some lingering questions floating around this thread.
First, the Hammond reed plates are identical to the ProMaster reed plates. So in essence, the Hammond is a ProMaster with a black anodized aluminum comb instead of a clear anodized aluminum comb. STTME58 – that is an interesting comment about the black anodizing but I am not sure it is entirely accurate. The color comes from dye and not the anodizing itself, but I do see how we could connect the dots between assuming that the layer of aluminum oxide is thicker because we can’t see through it to the metal. But I digress. The Hammond covers have a black lacquer finish. Also, something you may not know and I find interesting is that the covers on both the ProMaster and the Hammond are made of Brass – with the ProMaster covers being chrome plated and the Hammond black lacquered. A lot of people can hear a difference between the Hammond and the ProMaster. I would say that it comes from the covers since the other components are identical. I seriously doubt that a black anodized aluminum comb produces a different tone than a clear anodized aluminum comb.
Next, the ProMaster and Manji reeds have a different profile. The Manji reeds are longer and thinner and were developed to be Suzuki’s entry the “Blues Harmonica” side of the market. Clearly you can see elements of the Marine Band in its design. The combs are nearly identical in size. The width of the spaces and thickness of the tines is the same. That Suzuki chose to make the comb out of a wood composite is an indication that they wanted to capture the tone of a wood comb while simultaneously making it impervious to moisture and all the issues that accompany wood – like warping and swelling. The covers are very similar in shape to the Marine Band and a clear departure from the full length covers featured on their other harps (ProMaster, Hammond, Pure Harp, Fire Breath, etc.) The use of a single cover plate screw at the front of both ends of the harp is a nod to the practice that has been long used by many customizers who convert Marine Band 1896 from nails to screws. The Hohner Rocket has also made that change.
That said, the general consensus has long been that the Manji, with its longer and thinner reeds, is better suited for those who like to overblow. However, David Herzhaft, who recently posted the thread here on MBH featuring classical music and extensive use of overblows and overdraws, plays ProMasters. So obviously there are those OB/OD players who prefer the ProMaster reed plates.
One of the nice things about Suzukis is that all the harps that have been discussed have the same size reed plates and combs. It is very nearly a modular design, meaning you can mix and match reed plates with covers -as Gnarly has mentioned that his preferred configuration is Manji reed plates with Hammond covers. That is basically what The Olive is, Manji Reed Plates with Green Lacquered covers. I say nearly modular because whereas the Manji reed plates have cover plate screw holes to accommodate either the Manji covers or the ProMaster covers, the same is not true for the ProMaster reed plates. They only have cover plate screws to fit the full length covers like the ProMaster or Hammond or the rest. However, it isn’t difficult to drill holes to accept Manji covers if that is what you want to do.
Finally, as both a Suzuki Dealer and a Custom Comb Maker, I buy only reed plates and covers from Suzuki and use my combs to build harps. As such, I have a lot of components in stock including Manji Reed Rlates, ProMaster Reed Plates, Manji Covers, ProMaster Covers, Hammond Covers and Olive Covers. Although I don’t stock HarpMasters I do make combs for them and the ProMaster and/or Manji reed plates fit. I also build custom SUB-30’s and have an ample supply of SUB-30 covers floating around which fit nicely on the HarpMaster combs.
So if anyone out there is interested in designing a Suzuki Frankenstein Harp, I have pretty much everything you need. I can build it for you or supply you with the components if you want to do the reed work yourself. By the way, I can also build you a Double Reed Plate Manji or ProMaster. I just built one for Jason a few weeks ago and he loves it. Just let me know. I would love to work with you to build something special. You can click on the picture below to see this harp from other angles.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Apr 21, 2016 7:29 AM
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A440
539 posts
Apr 21, 2016
7:35 AM
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The Hammond is a high quality instrument. I have one, which plays really well and has a rich sound. It is my only metal combed harp and my only ET harp. It is airtight, responsive, and fun to play. I mostly play SP20s, Crossovers, Session Steels, and Manjis. But I do want/need to have a set of ET harps, and the Hammond will fill that role in my collection. I plan to acquire 6 or 7 more, when my budget allows.
Last Edited by A440 on Apr 21, 2016 7:36 AM
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Killa_Hertz
1128 posts
Apr 21, 2016
9:39 AM
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That harp is sick Tom.
It's funny that you mentioned that suzuki decided to go with the composite comb because it Doesnt warp. Because every one I've gotten is pretty well warped ootb. Lol. Sorry I just Hate the Manji Stock Comb.
I think my problem with the Manji is the same issue Owl was having wuth his promaster. They all seem to be a bit funny in the 3 hole area. All the other notes are fine, but the 3 hole (draw bends especially) are often weak or nearly missed unless I purposefully hit it good with some intention. It really is distracting.
Idk what the deal is. But my promaster did this also.
Does the hammond have a track record of the same issue?
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mlefree
654 posts
Apr 21, 2016
10:41 AM
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I know nothing beyond the level you can read here about Hammonds. I've never had the need to buy one because I have a 10-year old full set of Promasters that play as sweetly today as they did when I bought them.
I love those Promasters! I bought them right when PT first emerged with his "Swingin' Easy, Hittin' Hard" release. In fact PT helped me half-valve them right there at that Harpfest when I first met him. I would have bought Hohner Masterklasses to emulate what he was playing at the time but they had been discontinued by then. (I sometimes wonder what PT might be playing today if he hadn't run out of his stash of Meisterklasse reed plates.)
But instead, based solely on PT's recommendation, I bought a set of harps that closest resembled those Meisterklasses at the time with full cover plates, Promasters (Seydel had not yet risen). And what a happy surprise those Promasters were!
The most airtight OTOB harps I've tried. I was guarded in my outlook towards welded reeds but that concern has evaporated. The Suzuki phosphor-bronze reed alloy is clearly superior in durability compared to brass reeds. I have never had to replace a Promaster reed in a decade of fairly steady use.
They'd have have gotten more use and might even be my main instead of my secondary set (which is composed of a mixture of Sp20s and Marine Bands) were it not for one problem. I am a tongue blocker and I get that unpleasant galvanic reaction between the Promaster's aluminum comb and reed plates in the presence of my saliva. The fact that they are half-valved don't make them any more amenable to tongue blocked playing either. But that is obviously not inherent to the OOTB Promaster.
I like my Promasters well enough to overlook that issue and use them whenever I need an equal-tuned harp (when I play bluegrass or fiddle tunes with other ET instruments).
One thing I have to speak to in this thread though, is the issue of "brighter" or "darker" tones. I would just underscore the results of the existing rigorous experiments testing the impact of comb material on harmonica tone. Basically, there isn't any. At least to the listener. The composition of the comb pretty clearly affects the impression of the player, though.
I say "impression" to characterize the total sensory stimulation of a harmonica to the player, including both touch and the difference between what the listener and player hears. There is a lot of bone resonance excited by having the instrument both physically touching as well as in close proximity to the player's ears. This contributes to a difference between what the listener and the player hear. Also, aluminum is a far better transmitter of sound vibrations to the player's hands and lips than is wood or plastic.
These differences between the listener's and player's experiences make it difficult for me to place much credence in statements involving the technical terms, "brighter" or "darker" in the discussion of harmonica tone.
As a result I am quite confident that you can choose a Hammond over an Olive or a Promaster base purely on their appearances.
Michelle
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Last Edited by mlefree on Apr 21, 2016 10:42 AM
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Tiggertoo1962
104 posts
Apr 21, 2016
11:47 AM
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Thanks for all your opinions, folks - lots of good information in there. Glad I dredged this thread up, as there certainly seems to be plenty of people who have their own strong views on this harp.
Well I'll know soon enough whether it's going to be one of my favourites or not. Bid for, and got, one in Bb and one in C for 65 euros including postage. While I was at it, I bid for a Harpmaster in Bb the guy was selling, and got it for 5.50 euros, so assuming they are in good condition (as claimed) I reckon just over 70 euros for all three isn't a bad deal :)
BTW Tom, that really is a wicked looking harp there. Is that some kind of cover plate support you have coming through the comb in the middle?
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One of the last of a dying breed.
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STME58
1658 posts
Apr 21, 2016
11:56 AM
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Tom, I find it interesting that you mentioned anodize thickness. I wondered if the black was thicker, but because I do not know I did not state that in my post. I had to go back and check my post after reading yours as I was thinking thickness, but intentionally left that out.
My hypothesis is that the presence of the dye makes an inadequately anodized, or scratched comb much more obvious and therefore less likely to make it past quality control and be built and shipped. I would expect the specification for coating thickness to be the same for clear or black.
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florida-trader
900 posts
Apr 21, 2016
7:34 PM
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STMW58 - Sorry if I misinterpreted your meaning and put words in your mouth. Not my intention. I see your point. If you anodize a part black, let's say, if the anodized layer is too thin perhaps you will still be able to see the metal. I think what is important to understand is that the anodized layer can be a variety of thicknesses. I am certainly not an expert,but I can Google search with the best of them. There are three processes available, appropriately named Type I, Type II and Type III. With Type I (Chromic Anodizing) the layer of Aluminum Oxide formed on the metal ranges from 0.5 - 2.5 Microns of which 50% is penetration into the metal and 50% in an increase in the overall size of the part. Type II (Sulfuric anodizing )can produce a layer up to 1 mil (25 microns) thick- of which 67% is penetration into the metal and 33% is growth over original dimensions occurs. Sulfuric anodizing is permeable and is excellent for color dying. Type III (Hardcoat Anodizing) can produce layers up to 5 mils thick. Based on this information it is a safe bet that Suzuki and the vendor I use to anodize my aluminum combs use Type II. I suspect that they keep the thickness of the layer on the low side in the interest of not altering the size of the part dramatically.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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STME58
1659 posts
Apr 21, 2016
11:10 PM
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I had forgotten that anodizing grows the part. For a comb that is not a problem as long as the growth is consistent and the surfaces remain flat. I still don't know how flat is flat enough. I can't imagine an out of flatness of 1 mill, if is were a slow curve over the entire face, would be a problem as the reed plate can flex to meet it. I can imagine that a 1 mill step would be a big problem. I am of course, only speculating.
I don't know if you can do this with anodize, but in other types of clear coat, a fluorescent dye is sometimes added so that inspection under a UV light will reveal any areas not coated. When I shine a UV light an the aluminum wheels of my truck at night they light up like a 70's rock band poster, so I know GMC's wheel vendor uses this method.
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A440
541 posts
Apr 22, 2016
6:25 AM
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When I was growing up in rural appalachia, my grandfather and father both called the diatonic harmonica a "mouth organ". It's an old expression. Suzuki has cleverly adopted the name for their Hammond branded harps, since Hammond is an organ company.
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