CapitalG
7 posts
Apr 24, 2013
3:16 PM
|
I know this is an age old question but if I could solve it it would save me a world of frustration.
I attend a regular blues jam at and the sound guy will not mic up my small amp, as such I have no chance of competing with the Guitars. He will readily pass my mic through the PA however he has a habit of turning down the volume on harp players (mainly cos a large percentage are awful).
So my question is:
Is there a harp amp that will easily compete with guitars/loud jams?
I haven't had the chance to play through bassman, HG 50 etc.
I would welcome any constructive feedback, I currently own a VHT special 6 combo and have had great results when mic'd properly with a harp friendly sound guy. But would like to upgrade/invest in a larger amp IF it means I can actually be heard at my current jam.
Please don't reply with, leave the jam...unless this is the only real answer. I am well aware that educating the sound guy would be a good start, but it feels like i'm telling him the earth is round when he is certain its flat.
Thanks
G
|
John95683
72 posts
Apr 24, 2013
3:26 PM
|
Doesn't the VHT have a line out? Then you could play through the PA, and everyone's happy.
|
CarlA
322 posts
Apr 24, 2013
3:37 PM
|
@capitalg
Leave the jam! If the sound guy won't mic your amp, you will just leave feeling frustrated everytime.
|
SuperBee
1078 posts
Apr 24, 2013
3:53 PM
|
Just depends how loud the loud guitars are. I think they'll always outrun you if they want to. Best I came up with is a 410 Deville, HotRod in my case, but any 410 combo should give you some chance of getting in the mix.
You could just play to PA but if the guy is gonna cut you what's the point?
The situations where you have miked the VHT, are they similiar stage volume as this gig? Can you actually hear the VHT on stage? If so, I think you'll have no trouble being heard with a 410 and no mic on it.
If you cant hear it on stage, i'd expect miking the VHT or even lining it out to PA would only be a headache consisting of feedback, inaudability and frustration. But that's just my expectation based on my own limited experience. I know there are others who claim that 5 watt amps are quite feasible used in this way.
----------
|
Rick Davis
1656 posts
Apr 24, 2013
3:55 PM
|
No, leaving the jam is not the solution. And mic'ing up your VHT Special 6 may not be ideal either. You might have trouble hearing yourself, and if you are in the monitors it might introduce a tricky feedback problem. That could work if you have control over the sound board but not usually at a jam.
Sadly - or not - the best solution to be heard at a blues jam is to bring a bigger amp. You don't necessarily need to go all the way to a big 4x10 amp such as the Bassman; there are great mid-sized amps that will do the job in most jam settings. Look for an amp with at least 30 watts and a speaker whose sensitivity is greater than, say, 98 dB. That should get you heard, and it will weigh a lot less than the Bassman.
In this thread I posted a video of Nic Clark playing a very nice solo using the Mission 32-20 amp with 1x12 speaker. The jam set was loud, with two guitars and a Hammond B3 all competing for sonic space, plus drums and bass. The Mission amp is enormously loud for a 35 pound amp. [Full disclosure: I had something to do with the creation of the Mission 32-20 harp amp.]
The Bassman is the gold standard for big harp tone at a reasonable cost. I own a 1991 Bassman that is modified for harp and I *LOVE* the huge sound but dread the awkward weight. Mine weighs in at a hefty 63 pounds. The guitar player in my band refers to it as "that 900 watt Bassman." It can overwhelm the guitars.
For jams, a bigger amp is almost always a better idea for harp players. I say this as a harp player who has hosted a big blues jam in Denver for 4 years.
----------
-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
|
Rick Davis
1657 posts
Apr 24, 2013
3:58 PM
|
BTW,,I owned a VHT Special 6 and liked the natural blues tone, but when I tried using it at the jam I just could not hear myself.
----------
-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
|
nacoran
6736 posts
Apr 24, 2013
3:59 PM
|
Get a giant, clean sounding guitar amp, run your little harp amp into the giant amp, turn the volume to 11 and don't stop until the sound guys ears bleed?
Talk to a couple people and see if you are right about the levels being low (or tape it from the audience). If they agree they are, talk to the host about it. The sound guys job is to get the people on stage to sound like the people on stage want to sound like (unless they are running the crowd off). If he's not doing that, he's not a good sound guy.
edit: another thing, based on talking to the other players, is to ask one of the guitar guys to ask him to turn you up. If the guy has a fetish for guitar players maybe he will listen to them.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
Last Edited by nacoran on Apr 24, 2013 4:01 PM
|
6SN7
306 posts
Apr 24, 2013
4:18 PM
|
This questions reminds me of a posting I saw last week for a gig George Stackhouse was doing at Cady's in RI. He said he was bringing a Super Cruncher and patching it thru his 4-10. Look out twin eights!
|
1847
675 posts
Apr 24, 2013
6:53 PM
|
so you want to be heard... interesting question hmm.
be careful what you ask for!
you could start by making friends with the sound guy
ever thought of that?
not to hard, start by saying hello.
if he is doing a good job say so, hey nice job sounds great!
find a good looking waitress and tip her 2 bucks
tell her "that guy does a great job" send him a beverage of his choice. you should know what he drinks, or if he doesn't
let me quote you here
I attend a regular blues jam at and the sound guy will not mic up my small amp, as such I have no chance of competing with the Guitars. He will readily pass my mic through the PA however he has a habit of turning down the volume on harp players (mainly cos a large percentage are awful).
he has a habit of turning down the volume on harp players (mainly cos a large percentage are awful).
so let's be realistic here
what is your skill level?
i ask that because, if you are asking this question
perhaps there is more than meets the eye?
bring a tape recorder to the gig,always.
never give up.. play in your car ... play at home go to jams
keep at it
one day you will be onstage saying
hey brother can you turn this down a notch.....it's too loud!
----------
tipjar
|
jbone
1243 posts
Apr 24, 2013
9:13 PM
|
Ask the sound guy to drop highs and gain off the house mic and bring up some effects and play through the house system. Or get a big amp. Or find another jam. Better yet, find a partner or band and word HARD with them. That's what has worked best for me.
I'm in my 42nd year of playing. I spent a lot of time spinning my wheels for about half of that time. I hope you can just find a way to keep improving, wherever you're at skill and chops wise. There is always an answer. Keep trying and keep looking and keep working!
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
Last Edited by jbone on Apr 24, 2013 9:17 PM
|
capnj
95 posts
Apr 24, 2013
9:21 PM
|
Everbody's suggestions are good,but buying a big amp 30 to 50 watt,and dragging it down there will get you heard.I own a HG50,never brought it to a jam,but one of these days.
1847 is right on, don't give up work with the sound man,nacoran says get a guitar buddy to help,yeah.I have played through small miked amps works if it isn't guitar blasters heaven,then you are screwed period.
Bring your own mic,and get the sound guy to plug to pa,treble down,bass up,maybe a little reverb to start.Set your vol to 2/3,that will give some headroom to turn up,although great soundmen are privy to that move,but those guys want you to mix well,so no worry.Playing vocal eq'd mics to close will be to shrill,back off the mic if thrown into that spot,or you will be one of those guys they always turn down.
Bottom line keep practicing going to jams,and maybe lucky enough to play through some jam host,that are harp players,or other more accepted harp players gear.Lastly frustration is part of the test keep punching till you get in your licks.
Last Edited by capnj on Apr 24, 2013 9:48 PM
|
Littoral
843 posts
Apr 25, 2013
4:54 AM
|
@capnj "I know this is an age old question but if I could solve it it would save me a world of frustration."
Yes, an age old question and we know the frustration. Given all the variables, and unfortunately there are a lot them with a mic plugged into an amp, the best option is the big amp (~4-10). PA (at a jam) is only dependable if we are in control of it. If it's a pro/$ gig then we can assert ourselves much more into what is going on. The big amp will mean you can be heard on stage and will have enough sound to work a room. If you cannot be heard with the big amp then the band is too loud. You can see that coming so don't sit in with Molly Hatchet.
*this all assumes that you have maximized the parameters of your big amp to get it as loud as it can get AND you can really play. I assume you can. Articulation and tone are essential to being heard. Volume can be noise. If what I play sounds good enough then the band will come down to hear me -I can gesture for them to come down as well, but then I best bring it :)
|
CapitalG
9 posts
Apr 25, 2013
6:02 AM
|
Thanks people,
I appreciate the feedback. I think I will use a mix of these suggestions. As for my personal tone a believe is reasonable, way above average for the jam and I don't mean that in an arrogant way as there's room for improvement. I have a few submissions to David Barretts student sharing page if anyone wants to critique.
Thanks again for your feedback
G
|
Littoral
845 posts
Apr 25, 2013
9:12 AM
|
CapitalG, why not add the link here?
|
Greg Heumann
2113 posts
Apr 25, 2013
10:07 AM
|
Please download and read "All About Harmonica Microphones and then some" It spends a lot of time talking about the pros and cons of different solutions posed above.
----------
----------
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
|
