I've been going over a few youtube instructional videos on pursing and puckering and I'm convinced there are two or maybe three different techniques involved. I've watched Portnoy, Gussow, Michalek, Gindick, etc.
In Portnoy's pucker video he comes right out with the kissy fish mouth shape. Yes This is pucker/purse. You go from chords to single notes by opening and closing this shape as per Gindick.
In the Michalek video below. He calls it pucker/purse, but if you listen and watch, especially when he turns sideways....he is lip blocking. The bottom lip is the one blocking the hole.
Chris goes into detail to explain about dropping the jaw, opening the throat, and putting the harp in deep. He says this gets rid of the thin tone and opens up the world of overblows, throat vibrato, etc..
I am convinced if you drop your jaw and open your throat it is very tough to play the kissy fish shape mouth. Thats is why players who use this method, tilt the harp up and use the relaxed bottom lip to go from single notes to chords.
I've heard many players say they have custom overblow harps and still can't get an OB to sound. This may be where the problem lies. I've had luck with a couple of players by simply telling them to overblow from the throat and wham...they get their first one.
Notice the tilt of the harp and how Chris drops his jaw when he gives the side profile. The parts I'm talking about start at 3:30 to about 5:30
Last Edited by harpdude61 on Mar 08, 2013 10:25 AM
Most players seem to use the terms "pucker" and "lip block" interchangeably, just as tongue blocking is tongue blocking regardless of how you tilt the harp or whether you use the the top, tip or even bottom of your tongue on the harp.
But if they're different to you, good on ya. You'll just need to clarify that difference when you communicate with other players. ----------
That is correct timeistight...For sure more than one method of so called "pucker". I do not know about TBing. I'm not sure why you downplay these very different methods being taught by highly respected players/teachers?
My point is that if puckering is the way you go...it is/has been taught using different techniques by different teachers, and you should explore whichever one is best for you based on the styles and techniques you hope to incorparate as you advance.
Last Edited by harpdude61 on Mar 08, 2013 11:27 AM
Yes I agree. I played with the strong lip pucker for years until I learned to tongue block. After tongue blocking exclusively for a couple of years, when I tried to play with lips for certain reasons I found it easier to use my bottom lip to play single notes. I think I'd tended to top lip before I learnt to tongue block. It's easier to transition between tongue block and lip if you use the bottom lip as you describe. I just couldn't get the hang of bottom lip until I learnt to tongue block. ----------
From memory, norton buffalo demonstrated the pucker much like Adam Gussow does, although NB stated he personally used the curled tongue thing, which I just can't even think about. \%^) ----------
Interesting SuperBee. As a blocker similar to the vid above, I have a hard time side TBing. I'm working at it but my progress is slow. I can't get my bends as clean and full side TBing as I do LBing. I won't give up because I hear too much awesome stuff from Tbers!
here`s another one,cover bottom half of hole with your tongue {bent down]sliding around for note choice. I`ve been using this many yrs. this works on the upper notes 5-10 great.a light touch gets a good tone and you can jump to t-block or pucker at ease.
They're essentially the same and what you're finding out is something many players never learn regardless of what embouchure they'e using, and that's learning to vary it for different things, but in order to do it, you HAVE to be 100% fully relaxed or things will bet messed up. Too many players who have taught themselves how to play tend to do everything in a very forced, rigid way, and because of that, they never really are able to learn how to adjust to much of anything because they're essentially shooting themselves in the foot.
It's not unlike a vocalist with manipulating your mouth shape for forming vowels in order to get the clearest possible sound and have them properly articulated.
It's all about learning SUBTLE adjustments, but too often, especially self taught players, they're gonna approach it as anything BUT subtle. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
'Tipping' the harp was a complete game changer for me, thanks to the good people here. My tone is better then when I TB'ed, I can articulate with my tongue and everything is easier.
To me, it's the most natural way to approach the instrument.
I've found the same postiton as Chris showed about 3 years before I saw this video. I'm lip blocker mostly (and sometimes I use tongue block). And I tilt harp and I teach students this way, they get one hole in a half an hour of practice maximum (compared to other untilted variants, puckering etc). ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
As Stevelegh suggests, approaching diatonic in the most natural way is an advantage.
Here is my take on this issue...how I introduce beginners to proper technique. I call this the first orientation in how to approach diatonic.
First I have students look at the diatonic...the "holes" look very small and the usual beginning concept is to make the lips pursed ("Pucker") to simulate the size of the individual "chamber".
However, if you examine the harmonica, there are the holes. There are also the posts on either side of the holes. If you add these to the equation, the width of the holes will double at least.
If you take the upper and lower cover plates into consideration, the height of the holes will also at least double.
When you breath through the harmonica attempting to achieve single notes (and since the posts on either side and the cover plates do not allow air to pass), that initial visual small hole actually "grows" to a pretty large area, so there is no need to compress the lips into a tiny configuration to achieve a single note. Now the door is open to relaxing the lips instead of thinking "pucker" (which actually makes one tighten up the lip muscles).
Next I hand the student a glass of water and have them take a drink. After they do so, we discuss what actually just happened.
Taking a drink of water is so natural that no thought/effort goes into it. The glass is raised to the lips, rested on the lower lip and tilted up as the water passes between totally relaxed lips into the mouth.
I point out that you don't stare at the glass as it approaches your lips. Additionally, you don't stop the glass an inch away and reach towards it with puckered lips. I also point out that if you tense your lips while taking a drink, water will most likely start to leak around where your lips and glass meet and dribble down your chin.
I tell them, "As you drink a glass of water, so shall you play harmonica". This means do it naturally and with no unneeded tensing of mouth muscles.
Bring the harmonica towards your lips (without staring at it), let it rest on the lower lip and tip it up about 45 degrees. Allow the upper lip to relax over the top of the cover plate (quite a bit) and inhale. A lot of the harmonica will enter the mouth at this juncture.
Now, inhale or exhale. If you hear more than one note, slightly adjust the harmonica to the left or right until you achieve a single note. It this doesn't happen right away, move the harmonica slightly forward and retry the left/right adjustment. Most students get a single note with a relaxed attitude within a few minutes and are amazed that their mouth is actually relaxed open a lot more than they thought was necessary.
I tell them that words like "pucker" or "purse" suggest tension in the lips and shouldn't even be used or considered in learning.
In tilting the harmonic up, I make sure that the lower lip does not cover any part of the hole.
This is the most natural way to begin. I will have the students alternate taking a drink of water with raising the harmonica to their mouth to help imprint the life long relaxation of drinking into their harmonica approach.
If you don't tilt the harmonica up, but approach it straight on, you will no doubt start to "purse" or "pucker", reaching your lips towards the harmonica rather than bringing the harmonica towards your lips and into your mouth.
"As you drink water, so shall you play harmonica" ---------- The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Mar 10, 2013 9:35 AM
Another useful way to visualise playing a draw note without a tense pucker is to imagine you are going to take a drink using a straw.
You wouldn't think of puckering you lips to match the size of the hole of the straw and rest your lips on the top of the straw. No, you would place the straw in your mouth so your embouchure is much bigger.
An upgrade from this is not to use the straw analogy too deeply, as this creates a "sucking through the straw" internal attitude to the student leading him to "suck" air for the draw notes rather than to inhale.
I realize that I am "bundling" two concepts into your original embouchure suggestion, but I try to remove from the student's path any suggestions that lead to bad techniques, even as collateral damage. ---------- The Iceman
'I realize that I am "bundling" two concepts into your original embouchure suggestion, but I try to remove from the student's path any suggestions that lead to bad techniques, even as collateral damage
As you are a teacher, I can appreciate why you would say that.
@Iceman...You are very effective using visual and tactile imagery to impart information without letting language, per se, interfere. I have seen many athletes get their mechanics screwed up via "coaches" "telling" them what to do, from pitchers to golfers to bowlers and tennis players. Having language, words, going through your mind while you try to execute a physical maneuver will hinder you or put a "hitch" in that maneuver. The tactile imagery of taking a sip of water is a simple but effective way of imparting information. It is beautiful in its simplicity.
bingo. right on the money. I use minimal verbage and maximum imagery to teach.
You ain't seen nothing till you've seen my roomful of students learn about tension/release in regards to bending and releasing notes, all with harmonicas in their mouths, rubber band attached to little finger of hand holding harmonica and stretching/releasing rubber band with other hand. Looks like a roomful of elephants trumpeting. ---------- The Iceman
I would like to add that whilst some adjustment was required in use of my tongue, at no point did I find myself slipping back into old habits of TB'ing. Conversely, my 23 years of TB'ing technique remain unimpeded. I can switch from one to the other at will, including TB'ed overblows.
Anyone who hasn't tried tilting the harp for fear of losing skills, I can honestly say that you have no fear of that at all.
I can appreciate tilting the harp for acoustic playing, though I find it very uncomfortable and unnatural, and don't find a difference in tone or ease of playing (perhaps individual physiology is a factor). When it comes to cupping a bullet mic, I just don't see how you can do it, getting a good seal and keeping the hands relaxed. ---------- Lucky Lester
Stevelegh, I thought you were talking about lip pursing, and the OP is about lip playing, the difference between playing with a strong lip pucker/ straight on and dropped jaw, bottom lip, tilt harp. Your posts seem to be about lip playing trumping tongue block playing. No? Edit: oh I see dave is actually talking about both embouchures, my bad.
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Last Edited by SuperBee on Mar 11, 2013 2:57 PM
