Taj Mahal's original solo was crisper, sharper, better phrased and gutsier than what Popper offers here. Popper has developed his own style that's hard to duplicate, of course, but he is not a blues harp player. The speedy, slurred style he has on his own material does not work here, and it seems he cannot quite get the growl, rumble and sharp intonations we expect from a credible blues solo. I would say that Popper knows the way there, but doesn't know what to do once he arrives. Taj wasn't afraid to keep it simple and to keep it right. ---------- Ted Burke http://youtube.com/watch?v=-VPUDjK-ibQ&feature=relmfu ted-burke.com tburke4@san.rr.co,
Last Edited by on Nov 08, 2012 7:49 PM
Can you point to specific examples? I found that solo to be very hip all things considered. I am surprised that you are voicing that opinion as your style often has similar traits.
I dug the whole package; Taj Mahal, with the look and the attitude, the big rhythm section, the energy, and the way that popper kept it basic and simple until it was his turn and he built his solo gradually, the whole dynamics is something that I would aspire to with my band. ---------- Lucky Lester
I just think that Leavin Trunk, especially Mahal's version of it, deserves a punchier solo, fewer notes, deeper bends and more variation in how those notes are twisted. Others will doubtless disagree with me, but I don't think Popper has the same beautiful rhythmic sense Taj showed on his version from his debut album; using sparer, more emphatically placed notes , he placed his phrases in the groove and demonstrated that he knew how to play on the beat and on the off beat, and knew the tension that a note sustained over several beats creates as opposed to many notes that seem placed soley to fill up space. Popper has a problem playing compelllingly at slower tempos, and doesn't show the same control of the instrument Taj does in the original. Of course I might be wrong.
There is no doubt Taj Mahal's playing on this one is brilliant too; one of my favourites from him; but to compare with Black Crowes and Popper at a live gig is like comparing apples and oranges, in my opinion ---------- Lucky Lester
Yeah i'm with you on this Theo...Popper playing a blues just doesn't seem to work for me..too polished and 'notey'(new word?) . I saw Taj at a Blues Fest once in Australia and he never played any Harp through his 1 hour set.Still good stuff but some harp would of been the Tabasco.
@Frank that whatsit with the guy pickin his nose...near made me puke..^
Last Edited by on Nov 08, 2012 8:35 PM
I was relieved it was Taj singing. I tend to agree with Ted and Jehosaphat. As a bit of almost an OT side note the band on the original recording was Taj Mahal's amazing band of three guys from Oklahoma that went on making musical history with many of the greats of the time. Jesse Ed Davis on guitar, the guy who inspired Duane Allman to take up slide, went on to play and record with the whos who of the record undustry including Lennon, Harrison, Ry Cooder, Clapton, Jackson Browne, Neil Diamond, Rick Danko, Van Dyke Parks, Rod Stewart, and many more. Chuck Blackwell (drummer) Joe Cocker, Eric Clapton, Delaney and Bonnie, Freddie King, Leon Russell, Harrison and more,and Gary Gilmore (bass) the Stones,J J Cale, and more. These guys all masters of "less is more" and good taste. That couldn't hurt Taj's playing any either.
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2012 4:23 AM
For me, the difference between the two posted versions is stark: the Black Crowes/Popper version is pretty much unlistenable (including the harp solo), and the original Taj version is ear candy of the most delicious kind.
I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but I just don't get why anyone would want to listen to Popper's solos. To me, he most resembles a jazz sax player (or a rock guitar shredder) whose technique overwhelms any regard for musical content. He has great control of the instrument, no doubt, but even in a song like "Run Around", where his aimless noodling almost makes sense as a gesture, or an expression of feeling in the context of a pop song -- the notes he's playing aren't part of any coherent musical vocabulary. I struggle to find any connection between the solo and everything else happening on stage.
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2012 12:02 AM
Yeah, that's so confronting for me. The TM debut album opening cut is one of my favourite things. Still livin in the past I know but I don't rate this as an advance. I just don't get Popper though. I feel a bit sick now. But actually that may be from Frank's sickening gif. I really hope you get over it soon Frank. I liked you much better before you learned to do that.
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2012 2:35 AM
I have no aspirations to sound like popper even if I could. Discussions are good and opinions vary, but for me, one version is not better than the other, just different. Taj's original version in that context may have seemed predictable and ordinary. He obviously liked what Popper did on his song enough to ask him to do it.
I got the chance to speak with Taj Mahal himself a few weeks ago at the Blues Cruise during an autograph session (where he signed my harp case). I told him that "Leavin' Trunk" was my favorite song of his, and the next thing he said was "have you learned the intro yet?" He then said that his harp playing on the song was based on bebop - to be precise - "it's all bebop".
Ok, I am copying from Wikipedia, which is dangerous, but the definition of "bebop" fit my schema:
"Bebop or bop is a style of jazz characterized by fast tempo, instrumental virtuosity and improvisation based on the combination of harmonic structure and melody. It was developed in the early and mid-1940s. It first surfaced in musicians' argot some time during the first two years of American involvement in the Second World War. This style of jazz ultimately became synonymous with modern jazz, as either category reached a certain final maturity in the 1960s."
I know John Popper studied at a music school where he focused on jazz. I forget the details, and it wasn't a formal music college or anything, but he had an interest in music studies. I find it fascinating that Taj Mahal, who I really enjoy, said Leaving Trunk was influenced by bebop - especially since the spin John Popper puts on it is MUCH more bebop.
I don't hear the bebop influence in the original harmonica track, which I've heard endless times. I hear stereotypical blues harmonica. I don't want the connotation of "stereotypical" to be negative. I am just saying it is very well played blues harmonica from a rhythm and groove standpoint. However, it isn't very polished and the 7 draw over the IV chord sounds out to me, lol. In fact, and I don't have a harp in hand to try this, I think he his a few notes out of the blues scale (yeah).
It, IMO, lacks characteristics associated with bebop. I am not disrespecting Taj or his version, because he obviously kicks ass and I am not being critical of the performance. I would say the vid atty1chgo posted also features a blues approach to the harmonica.
I can't understate, though, how awesome Mr. Mahal is on this song as well as in general.
Regarding Popper's solo, I really enjoyed it and it was very much blues based. You can hear the Sugar Blue influence as he transitions to the IV chord on the first solo and a bar or two before the IV on the second solo. It sounded like he might have been anticipating the IV chord a little early (maybe), but both verses were very coherent and well played.
His phrasing on the first solo was a repeated lick with variation that then followed the harmony of the song. He played with a bluesy tone and worked a motif around the 4 and 5 holes (a very traditional blues move) throughout that verse. On the second solo, I am fairly sure he hit an overblow at 4:18, but I have no harp to reference that with. His turnaround phrasing and note choice was pretty bad ass to end the solo too. He hit a lot of blues notes in all three octaves with great timbre, tone, and vibrato.
This is a really good blues solo, IMO, and much more appropriate then some of his other blues playing (which tends to not focus on blue notes and sound out, IMO). Generally, when I hear guys playing blues fast, it is a parlor trick and not very musically interesting. Often times it is totally out of harmony and groove with the song. This is not an example of that. It is very different than Taj's approach, but if you really listen to what is being played, it is definitely hip.
Just to set the record straight- "Leaving Trunk" - a cover version of Estes' song "Milk Cow Blues" appeared on Taj Mahal's, 1968 eponymous album, Taj Mahal. It was also covered by The Derek Trucks Band on their concert album Live at Georgia Theatre. The Keef Hartley Band covered the song on their debut album, Halfbreed-
@didjcripey Music that's been around for 44 years can easily sound predictable. When this recording came out in 1968 I don't recall hearing anyone describe it as predictable or ordinary, quite to the contrary it was largely regarded as a new take on an old music. Taj Mahal is known to be a very kind and generous individual, so as far as endorsements go unless I see Popper on his next studio album I'm not going to read too much in to them being on stage together, there are many ways that can happen.
Last Edited by on Nov 10, 2012 6:35 AM
The song on the whole has a "modern" sound yet today. I just don't think there is much evidence suggesting the harp playing stretched far beyond the norm for the 60's. Taj Mahal is a champion of the blues and really propelled the genre.
If someone can point to specific examples from Leaving Trunk (studio version) that would counter my thoughts, I am all ears.
I love the white-guy-blues bravado. First of all, both Taj and Popper were guests on stage with the Black Crowes. It was nice of the Crowes to have them up. Plus, I don't get the attitude towards them all sharing the stage. All three parties involved reserved the right to not play with the others.
I find it totally amusing that people on this forum name drop all over the place, yet when a mega-star of the instrument is brought up whose name dropping would put all of to shame, we dismisses it as not significant.
The truth of the matter is, in most cases, these musicians jam together because they want to. They don't harbor the same closed-minded attitude towards music that those on the outside do.
I'm a big fan of Taj, and "Leaving Trunk" in particular. I started reading some of the posts as the video was loading and I was ready to dislike this but after listening all the way through I have to agree more with HarpNinja on this.
It is certainly "different" than the Taj Mahal version but it was still very good. Popper was Popper. He didn't try to sound like anyone else. I'm betting that if he tried to play the harp parts "just like Taj" then some of the same guys on here would be complaining about that.
Adam and many others on this site talk about modern blues harmonica and how that ties to players defining their own sound rather than imitating the greats of the past. Popper is one of those guys, like Adam, Jason, Sugar Blue, Rick Estrin, that when I hear them on a recording I immediately KNOW it's them. Frankly, I'd have been disappointed had he NOT played on this cut just as he did.
I'm not a huge Popper fan. Maybe because I can't even come close to playing his music :) and as stated above I'm a pretty big fan of Taj Mahal. That said, I like this cut. ---------- "Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo"-F. Sinatra
i should say that i didn't mean my posts to be a knock against fast playing harmonica players (or guitarists for that matter) performing blues. alacrity is an element of style and feel, and these clinch it for me; sugar blue, jason ricci,pat ramsey, Johnny Winter, and some others who are swift and sure with their phrases, are masters of their technique in that they grasp the "feel" and emphasis that blues playing requires to be effective and deploy their more rapid-fire riffs in context to melody ,groove , the credible build up of tension. In those cases, there is rarely a time when I felt that Sugar, Jason,Adam, Howard Levy (when he performs blues) resort to speed as mandatory "go to" riffing . It's an element of their style, and style is the credible, coherent , and attractive expression of a player's technical acumen. Style is what makes the techinical ability listenable. I should also say that I didn't mean to slam John Popper as a harmonica player--what he's done is that rare thing, created a style of playing that is uniquely his , Not many players have that distinction. The playing he does with Blues Traveller is often stunning and mind bending, and I find it hard to imitate his style. But for allhe can do, his weak spot on the instrument is his blues playing. Popper is impressive in many ways , but he is not, I don't think, a blues player, and sounds awful when he tries to lay out a statement on a simple I IV V progression. On this Leavin Trunk jam he sounds a tad sloppy and not really sure how to do the draw bends; he sounds like he's not all that use to doing them and winds up blustering his way through his solo. In the end , this sounds like nearly every solo he has ever recorded. Sugar, Jason, Pat, Johnny Winter (on guitar) consistently surprise you with their ideas. Here, Popper does not.
But that is not say that there is not hope for Popper playing the blues. This is a recent track he did with Johhny Winter, Last Night. When I heard this track, I had to set aside my bias against Popper and awe at this taste and skill--his solo here is brilliant, bright, gutsy, thoughtful, utterly breath taking in the high registers. This is one of the best solos Popper has done anywhere, and I hope it marks a period of stylistic advancement for the good man.
---------- Ted Burke http://youtube.com/watch?v=-VPUDjK-ibQ&feature=relmfu ted-burke.com tburke4@san.rr.co,
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2012 9:24 AM
@ JDHoskins: yes, that's my point; Taj Mahal's original version was 1968, the vid in question was a live concert in 1995 with a different band with their own style, it needed to be different ---------- Lucky Lester
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2012 1:52 PM
I must get around to listening to this JW stuff. I am a huge fan of JWs stuff; well some of it. I haven't paid attention to his work over the last 20 years though. Everytime I have dipped into it I have been so very sad to find a guy going through the motions, a decaying icon who can draw an audience with his name and thus generate an income for himself and his entourage who actually provide the show. I haven't been able to bring myself to check out the latest "drug free" JW yet, for fear of disappointment. I haven't heard much of John Popper. What I have heard, hasn't inspired me to hear more. I bought a BT album, but it didn't turn me on. Now I think I have an expectation that I'm not going to like what I hear from JP so I don't seek it out. I realise that is a prejudice I have developed. And if I'm wrong it's only my loss, no skin off anyone's nose but mine. I just don't dig that tone. It's just my ears. I dunno if there's anything groundbreaking about TMs harp on that leaving trunk record he made; it just really grabs me. Not in any intellectual way. It is just this: it's the opening cut on his debut record and it starts with a harp riff which is totally attention grabbing. To me it's about like Sonny Boy's good morning schoolgirl in its way. Attention grabbing and memorable. Definitive in that I think Taj Mahal and that's the first thing that comes to mind.. Which is not to say someone else can't play the song and do it however they want. I think the allies won the war etc But for me it's hard to think leaving trunk/taj mahal, and find JP playing harp...I'm not crying in my gin or anything...just the combination LT + TM creates an a priori expectation.. And i already have a prejudice against John Popper's approach to harmonica, so these things do not sit easy in my mind. And I'm afraid that's all it is. I'm a victim of my brain and its historical programming. Ok now I'm going to brave the world of Js W & P and hope I get my mind expanded...here goes.., Yeah, not the most inspiring work I've heard from JW, especially at the start it sounds like playing to a backing track...and his solo reflects his experience but its kind of disconnected, remote... But Poppers work is the most enjoyable I've heard...but I still was more impressed than I was moved...it was well constructed sure enough but I'm not gonna be rushing to buy the record. I may play it to people though, to demonstrate what can be done on harmonica by an exceptionally focused person... Yeah, just not my cuppa tea, for my listening pleasure. But no doubt he knows what he is on about. And if JW is back on track I'm happy for him, but I'm not expecting to ever be inspired by him again. I've shed those tears and moved on...concierto de aranjuez is more my speed... Maybe the Jim Hall recording with Chet Baker and Paul Desmond and Roland Hanna..that's emotional ain't it?
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2012 2:35 AM
