BronzeWailer
701 posts
Jul 10, 2012
12:48 AM
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I am sadder than someone who failed to get into clown school because he was too much of a sad sack and would depress all the other clowns.
I was playing my newish (around 1-2 months old) Seydel 1847 Low D through my newish (ditto) custom wooden mic from BlowsMeAway today, trying to take advantage of my large hands to create a tight seal and and get all the air through the harp, as I have been reading about on this forum.
I seemed to be there when the 2 draw suddenly went horribly flat. Opened the harp up, and she now plunks instead of plinking, while her sister reeds sing merrily away. Given I probably apply too much breath force anyway, is the fact of achieving a tight seal a contributing factor to reed failure? I suppose that the stresses would be commensurately greater if ALL the air is going through one hole on the harp.
Has this ever happened to any of you?
I don't want this to happen again!
I loved that harp...
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SuperBee
385 posts
Jul 10, 2012
1:06 AM
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Commiserations! That is such a bummer. I feel that pain.
Regarding the cupping seal, I don't understand why it would make any difference. Going out on limb, seems to me the tight cup is about maximum effect re the mic element rather than the reed. There's not more air pressure through the reed in play, is there?
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Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2012 1:08 AM
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BronzeWailer
702 posts
Jul 10, 2012
1:16 AM
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Thanks SuperBee. Maybe it was just a coincidence...
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Steamrollin Stan
476 posts
Jul 10, 2012
1:21 AM
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seydel uses s/s reeds, which become work hardened as you use or "excercise" the steel, it just became brittle and busted, ....thats my 2 bobs worth anyhow.
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BronzeWailer
703 posts
Jul 10, 2012
1:24 AM
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@Stan. After two months, though? Sheesh!
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Noodles
72 posts
Jul 10, 2012
4:20 AM
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Just 2 months? Well… either you’re clobbering the harp when you play it was faulty to begin with. Seydel does come with a warranty, I believe. Why not drop a note to Dave @ Elk Rivers? He can probably tell you what happened and get it repaired faster than Seydel.
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Noodles
CBH 2016 Chromatic available for trade
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2012 4:21 AM
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BronzeWailer
705 posts
Jul 10, 2012
4:49 AM
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Thanks Noodles. I am in Oztrayla so that might make it a bit problematic....
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eebadeeb
43 posts
Jul 10, 2012
5:25 AM
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My Gazelle 1847 from Chistmas lost 4 blow before March. I checked with Rupert Oysler - No Warranty. Couldn't make the repair myself because single reeds are not for sale. New reed plate sets are 65 USD. Got it repaired by George Miklas.
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laurent2015
315 posts
Jul 10, 2012
11:19 AM
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Bronze
I owned 2 old chroms (up to 25 years) that failed
one after the other within two months, without any explanation. The sound became lower then the normal pitch, and examining the reeds with a 20x magnifying lens, I saw a splendid crack in them, invisible by bare-eye.
Thinking positively, I own now a huge stock of valves and reeds to possibly (try) to repair other harps.
About one year ago I broke a reed of my A Hering Black Blues, where the reed ended in two parts while (hard) playing!
So if your broken reed is in one piece, you'll maybe see a crack, using a magnifying lens.
Can simply be a defect in the metal.
I'd try to activate the warranty, you've nothing to lose!
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HarpNinja
2560 posts
Jul 10, 2012
11:24 AM
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Wait! I thought SS reeds didn't break???? They should at least last a few years, right?
That is either a defect or you are playing way way too hard.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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1847
60 posts
Jul 10, 2012
11:30 AM
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call rupert
bet he will fix it!
i have never had a reed go flat
i have however had a few reeds fracture
they have the best customer service.
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HarpNinja
2561 posts
Jul 10, 2012
11:32 AM
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The reeds for sure go flat. IMO, they tend to go all at once - get really flat and break off. They aren't like brass where you can retune and prolong the life.
My general attitude is that when all is said and done, the the life in the reeds has way more to do with the player than material.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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1847
61 posts
Jul 10, 2012
12:09 PM
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HarpNinja
i agree with that.
when a reed fractures it is flat
they make that sound that he described
plunk when it should plink
barring catastrophic failure
they tend to stay in tune
i have yet had to retune one.
several reeds have needed to be replaced.
he is to far away to send it back
the postage would cost more then having it repaired locally.
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BronzeWailer
706 posts
Jul 10, 2012
2:33 PM
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Thanks for the input guys.
I really do suck too hard, I guess.
There's a Hohner workshop next month so I will get me along to that.
@Laurent I am also creating a supply of "potential" replacement reeds; this ain't the first time I've cracked or otherwise.
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laurent2015
316 posts
Jul 10, 2012
2:54 PM
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BTW, do you think it's possible to transplant a chrom's reed to a diatonic?
I mean, if you have to change a A reed of a diatonic in A, the A reed of a chrom in C would a priori not be the same in lenght, that's a point.
BUT widthwise, are they the same? It seems that yes (I only own a rule to measure, but it's not very accurate!)
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BronzeWailer
707 posts
Jul 10, 2012
3:14 PM
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I don't know laurent. I'm sure there are pletny of people on the forum who do though!
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dougharps
219 posts
Jul 10, 2012
3:32 PM
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After 2 1/2 years my 1847 Silver in A went flat on the 9 blow (too many blow bends?). David Payne repaired it very well, but he obviously doesn't do repairs for free. Still, it was considerably less expensive than new reed plates. I thought that over 2 years was reasonable, but not as good as I hoped when steel reeds first were promoted. It was my goto A harp.
A flat draw reed in 2 months makes me think that either you play VERY hard, or there was a defect.
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Doug S.
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BronzeWailer
708 posts
Jul 10, 2012
3:46 PM
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Thanks Doug. I was trying to get both the bends on that low D 2-hole draw and probably sucked way too hard. I have accessed some of BBQ Bob's comments about breath force from another thread and taking them to heart (or lungs). I need to reform the way I play, starting today.
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eebadeeb
44 posts
Jul 10, 2012
5:49 PM
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No doubt I suck, but I definitely do not play the harmonica too hard. A couple dozen Hohners have never broken a reed in only two months. I thought part of the value of ss reeds was longer life. I thought it was probably defective because 4 blow seems unusual to break, but Rupert said it was not unusual because it assists 4 draw bend. Rupert will fix it for the regular reed repair price, No Warranty.
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STME58
209 posts
Jul 10, 2012
10:40 PM
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I have a Seydel Session Steel in Low D that I am on my 3rd set of reed plates on. The first reed broke in less than 2 weeks.
Right now it has a replaced reed on 7 blow that I did myself. I am about 2 for 5 in successful reed replacements.
Stainlees steel has what is called an endurance limit and brass does not. What this means is that no matter how gently you bend a piece of brass back and forth, it will eventually fatigue and break, the more you stress it the sooner it breaks. If you bend the steel gently enough (keep the stress below the endurance limit) you can bend it back and forth practically forever and it will not fatigue.
I think my playing take the steel over the endurance limit because the steel reeds don't seem to last longer than the brass ones. I am breaking fewer reeds as I am learning to play softer and learning to use technique rather than brute force to get the effects I want.
The brute force method is a natural reaction that seldom works. Kind of like repeating yourself louder in english to a person who does not understand english.
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BronzeWailer
711 posts
Jul 10, 2012
10:54 PM
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I have started training myself to play as softly (least breath force) as I can.
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STME58
210 posts
Jul 10, 2012
11:38 PM
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On the original seal question. What bends the reed is the pressure difference between one side and the other. When you create a seal on the harp, you increase the pressure on the cover side of the reed so that even though you may be blowing harder the pressure difference from one side of the reed to the other may be the same, or even less if the seal is really good. Of course if you blow harder and don't have enough of a seal to create the back pressure, you are going to break reeds.
I am very new to amplified playing so I will leave it to others to comment on how much back pressure you need and how to manage the tone through the interelation of back pressure due to a good seal and breath pressure.
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mandowhacker
175 posts
Jul 11, 2012
8:15 AM
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@Laurent: "BTW, do you think it's possible to transplant a chrom's reed to a diatonic?"
It would seem that a reed is just a piece of metal that would vibrate anywhere. It's just a matter of whether or not it would fit and tune to pitch in the instrument it's being used in.
Kinda like a piece of .011 music wire. It doesn't care if it's on an electric or acoustic guitar as a high E string or even if cut almost in half and used on a mandolin. ;-)
Greg
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Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.
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