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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > NEW: Suzuki Reed Replacement Kit HRT-10
NEW: Suzuki Reed Replacement Kit HRT-10
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Brendan Power
206 posts
Apr 12, 2012
10:12 AM
A moving picture is worth a million words:

isaacullah
1911 posts
Apr 12, 2012
11:06 AM
Now THAT is slick. Well done suzuki! How much does it cost?
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Brendan Power
208 posts
Apr 12, 2012
6:35 PM
It's not cheap, as there are a lot of finely machined high-quality components involved.

Price in the the UK is about £GBP262.00. I'm waiting to hear on US prices, will come back to you on that.

I guess if a player replaces reeds on 1-3 chromatics (depending on model) or 5-6 Promaster/Manji type-harps the tool set will have paid for itself. Plus there is the advantage of easily swapping reeds around for alternate tunings etc. Not to mention the sheer pleasure of using such a clever bit of kit.
wheezer
217 posts
Apr 13, 2012
3:00 AM
Great stuff, but I'd just like to know where to get the spare reeds. Please can I have some reeds. All want are some spare reeds. Please tell me where I can buy some reeds. Reeds, reeds, my kingdom for some reeds.

Oh well, I 'spose I'll just have to carry on using MB reeds on Manji plates. Good job they fit spot on.
FreeWilly
167 posts
Apr 13, 2012
3:29 AM
Hey Wheezer,

Now that's interesting. Do you notice a difference in loudness and/or playability between the reeds?
wheezer
218 posts
Apr 13, 2012
5:55 AM
@FreeWilly.

No, I couldn't find any differences at all.
I did put a video on the forum a couple of weeks ago on using the MB reeds for the Manji. I'll see if I can add it on here.



Sorry, I do tend to waffle on in videos
Gnarly
209 posts
Apr 13, 2012
4:20 PM
As far as I can tell, reeds are reeds.
Perhaps stainless steel are brighter (duh), but I put other manufacturer's reeds into harps when I need a reed.
I was going to put a brass reed into an 1847, but couldn't find one high enough!
jim
1237 posts
Apr 13, 2012
4:55 PM
I've bought a lifetime supply of Suzuki reed screws. The harponline screws are total trash. I've just destroyed 5 hours of work thanks to them.

The first video in the thread arouses my curiosity... Brendan, you've got an email...

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Last Edited by on Apr 13, 2012 4:55 PM
REM
192 posts
Apr 13, 2012
5:07 PM
You're using Suzuki reed bolts Jim? Where'd you get the idea to switch to those? : )
I could swear I remember you telling me how great the harponline nut and bolts are.
: P

Last Edited by on Apr 13, 2012 5:08 PM
jim
1238 posts
Apr 13, 2012
5:12 PM
@REM:

I told you that there was no other option at that moment, and that it was great to have at least those. They are AWFUL. I hate them.

I must admit that it was a huge quest to get the suzuki screws. NOT possible for an average consumer.

You said you had those, and I couldn't find an easy way to buy them. Now I'm in the "elite club" too :-D


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Last Edited by on Apr 13, 2012 5:22 PM
jim
1239 posts
Apr 13, 2012
5:21 PM
@REM: sent you an email too...

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Gnarly
210 posts
Apr 13, 2012
6:46 PM
@jim I congratulate you, we had a tough time getting Suzuki Japan to sell us screws when I was at Suzuki USA.
They are great! I prefer using donor reeds with rivets attached, tho . . .
Brendan Power
210 posts
Apr 15, 2012
3:24 PM
I've had a few queries about the harp player on the video. It's MAKI YAMAGUCHI, a long-time test player for Suzuki. He plays all types of harmonica very well.
FreeWilly
174 posts
Apr 16, 2012
4:24 AM
Thanks Wheezer, for that vid.

Does anyone know why these screws are so hard to come by? Jim? Brendan? I'd love to have a couple, and I've searched for screws like it, but I haven't found any..
jim
1240 posts
Apr 16, 2012
5:30 AM
Japanese mentality and culture is very different - that's why :)
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7LimitJI
650 posts
Apr 16, 2012
6:06 AM
Not much point in buying a VERY expensive tool if you can't get the reeds or screws ???

In fact, whats the point of buying a harp from any manufacturer if they don't supply reeds?


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"It's music,not just complicated noise".

Last Edited by on Apr 16, 2012 6:08 AM
STME58
145 posts
Apr 16, 2012
10:52 AM
I ordered some M1.4 x 2.0 screws to mount a small motor with from Ababba bolt and got them within a week. The model shop at work ordered them so I don't know what they cost or if Ababba Bolt will deal with an individual. They are in San Diego but I expect most areas shoud have an industrial fastener supply for parts like this.
isaacullah
1919 posts
Apr 16, 2012
3:08 PM
Amazon.com bought out "SmallParts.com", so you can actually get a variety of small-sized screws/bolts/nuts/etc. directly from Amazon, and they've even got a fairly easy-to-use way of navigating through all the millions of smalls screws and stuff (narrow by head-type, gauge, width, length). I found some nice brass 0-80 panhead phillps screws on there that might be good for reed-replacement (not to mention some nice 2-56 stainless steel hex bolts for reedplate attachment). I personally don't use screws for reed replacement. I reuse the rivets from the donor reeds, or make my own rivets from brass wire (with the aid of a dremel and a file).
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== I S A A C ==
Super Awesome!

View my videos on YouTube!
Visit my reverb nation page!
Brendan Power
212 posts
Apr 17, 2012
4:47 AM
I contacted Suzuki for clarification and was told:

"Officially we are selling the screws, nuts, reed and valves and the other parts to the end user (buyer) through their local distributor.

Find your local distributor on the link:
http://www.harmonica-online.com/html/countryselect.htm

If you do not have a Suzuki distributor in your country in Europe, Howard Johnson of Suzuki Europe Ltd. will arrange the parts accordingly. In this case, you will pay the ordered parts plus freight charge to Suzuki Europe Ltd., and we Suzuki Corp., Japan will send the parts to the buyer by air mail or courier accordingly.

Howard's email is: hojo@suzukimusic.co.uk

Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2012 4:52 AM
FreeWilly
176 posts
Apr 17, 2012
5:10 AM
Thanks very much all of you. That's some very useful info. Hadn't found the official Suzuki distributors yet. Guess now I can order those screws!

@Isaac:
I have always been able to use the old rivets so far (I don't blow out many reeds, and would like to have something like the screws for back up if my rivet technique doesn't work out), but like the idea of making them oneself. Never thought of wire to make them though. Thanks for that. Is that the 'normal' way to do it btw? Why brass?

And would anybody know if you can you still re-use rivets if you have flatsanded your drawplates? Thanks so much!
FreeWilly
178 posts
Apr 17, 2012
10:59 AM
Just found a few old threads that answer the questions I pose above.

You can make rivets, but as David Payne points out, they don't have a head yet, and are therefore a pain in the 'rivet' to work with. So he like Isaacs idea of just buying a cheap harp (or taking an old one) and harvest the rivets from there.

Great idea (why hadn't I though of this?). I'll stick with the latter idea ;)

http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/974034.htm

http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/1463989.htm
MP
2165 posts
Apr 17, 2012
11:35 AM
i really gotta make a video of how i harvest a donor reed with the rivet still in place and ready to go.

it's a v. cool trick that is cheaper and faster than anything on the market.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.

"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"

click user name for info-
HarpNinja
2342 posts
Apr 17, 2012
11:38 AM
I use rivet sticks from Hohner. I have a 2oz rivet hammer that works well for forming the head, and I know find it easier to do than working with screws.

I was intimidated to use new rivets for a long time. I don't really have an excuse as to why, but the "pros" of going to screws diminish when you have problems like Jim has shared (I run into that too).

There are tools made to help make working with rivets easier, but I've been fine without most of them. Even on a donor reed, I typically use a new rivet.

Using a screw nets you some wiggle room for centering the reed easily. However, it is easy for them to shift as well. A rivet involves some angled hammering if you get off center, but once you're good, you're good.


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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
isaacullah
1920 posts
Apr 17, 2012
12:48 PM
@FreeWilly: Yes, it's actually EASIER to harvest (derivet) a reed if the plate has been flatsanded... And the rivets still work fine.

The way I make rivets is to cut a small (1/4") piece of wire, and actually put it INTO the "collet" of the dremel (the chuck). Then, I just turn the dremel on high, and while the brass wire is spinning, I hold a jeweler's file up to it, and reduce the diameter until it just fits in the rivet hole (trial and error). When you take the new "rivet" out of the dremel collet, it will have thinner part on one side, and a thicker part on the other. The thinner side is the side that goes into the rivet hole, and the thicker part will become the new rivet's "head". Use some flush cut wire cutters, and carefully snip off the excess from both sides, and voila! Instant rivet. I use Brass wire for two reasons. 1) I had some already. 2) it's a little more durable than copper wire, while still being maleable enough to easily expand when hammered into place. I use a small hobby hammer and an anvil (the anvil is like 3 inches long), and a nailset when setting the rivets. Works like a charm. Also, I honestly have only ever had to make new rivets two times. Usually, I can extract the donor reed with the rivet in place, and just use that... Screws are so fiddley, and I don' really have the patience for all that! ;)
----------


== I S A A C ==
Super Awesome!

View my videos on YouTube!
Visit my reverb nation page!
isaacullah
1921 posts
Apr 17, 2012
12:51 PM
For what it's worth, the suzuki tools in the OP look seriously awesome. But it isn't necessary to spend that much for a serviceable set of tools for reed-replacement. I think I spent a total of $10 on everything I use to replace reeds with: Reed removal tool (made from a modified grommet setter), hobby anvil, hobby hammer, nail set, small file(s), wire cutters. All purchased from Harbor Freight for very little money...
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== I S A A C ==
Super Awesome!

View my videos on YouTube!
Visit my reverb nation page!
FreeWilly
179 posts
Apr 17, 2012
1:48 PM
Thanks Isaac,

very useful info!
Brendan Power
213 posts
Apr 17, 2012
10:50 PM
I enjoyed reading the various personal approaches to riveting reeds. Sizing down the brass wire with your Dremel is a cool trick, Isaacullah :-)

If I'm replacing a Hohner reed or similar with a harvested reed from an an old reedplate, I punch out the reed and rivet together. Then it's a simple matter of inserting the combo into the the good reedplate (ream out the rivet hole slightly first). I crimp the rivet using a Vise Grip (Mole Wrench or Locking Pliers), holding the reedplate up to the light as I do it to make sure everything is centred.

90% of the time that works well, but occasionally the reed won't centre. I have bashed things about and bodged it in the past, but these days simply abandon the rivet and use the Suzuki screw instead. Of course I'll use it for all Suzuki reeds too.

Using screws does give you some wriggle room to get everything perfectly lined up. @ Harpninja: I haven't had trouble with reeds shifting, but if you're concerned put a tiny drop of thin Locktite at the back of the rivet pad (reed base). It will seep underneath and give added security.

Finally for those who want to replace Suzuki reeds without the cost of buying the HRT-10 kit (cool though it is: those finely-machined screw punches are fun to use :-), you can replace Suzuki reeds fast and cheaply with common home tools:

MP
2166 posts
Apr 18, 2012
11:46 AM
by the way,i love tools and have to say that the Suzuki machine above is the coolest harp repair tool i've ever seen.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.

"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"

click user name for info-
Bruce
4 posts
Apr 19, 2012
2:29 AM
I had a chance to evaluate the Suzuki tools at the Music Messe in Frankfurt. I was very impressed. They are very precise and solid just like the Harps from Suzuki. No cutting corners. I tried to figure out how to use them but did not get very far. After viewing Brendans video most all of it falls together.

I like the nut and screw option as most anyone can perform this process without problems however can the screw also change the sound the reed produces if slightly under torqued or over torqued? I think it can.

I should note that rivets are poor for carrying tension loads and are basically used for their shear strength properties or both. Nuts and bolts are far better for carrying tension loads. Do we have to worry about this with a harmonica reed?

There are a couple factors that you have to take into consideration when riveting. The machines the major manufacturers use to rivet reeds to new plates are calibrated in order to create an optimal outward compression or radial force on the plate and reed after the riveting process. It does in fact affect the sound. This is a very important step in the manufacturing process. When rivets are replaced again and again the plate hole becomes larger. For the first couple of reed replacements you can hammer the hole smaller as the holes edge can lift up in the rivet punching process. When this is no longer possible you generally have to go to the next larger rivet. When it is too far gone you need a new plate. I never thought about making a flush plug rivet but that is a real neat idea for a plate repair.

Most reeds used today are stainless steel. It is not wise to hammer them too much as they get work hardened real fast and fail. They will actually loosen up rather than hold better. This is something to watch out for when re-using rivets. The old rivets were of a softer steel. They were however very prone to corrosion and the consumers did not like the looks of it. The softer rivets were easier to use but they also got work hardened just like any metal.

I like the old MS rivets that had a shop head on them. I do not know why they were discontinued. They were very superior to what is used today and very easy to install. It is most likely the price factor - everything is.

There is also the present cost factor to consider when repairing your own harps. When I see the prices of parts I just shake my head - gouging at its best! Same parts, quadruple the price! Unverschämtheit!!! This is quite an unattractive practice.
Brendan Power
216 posts
Apr 19, 2012
2:56 AM
@ Bruce: I should say that it's not MY video; it was done in Japan and the harp player is Maki Yamaguchi.

You say "Most reeds used today are stainless steel." That's not so, only a tiny proportion are steel, from certain models made by the Seydel company. The overwhelming majority are brass or (in Suzuki's case) phosphor-bronze. Still, that's a good point about the work-hardening.
Bruce
5 posts
Apr 19, 2012
5:35 AM
Thank you REM, that is actually what I wanted to write - sorry for the mix up readers.
jim
1242 posts
Apr 19, 2012
6:03 AM
old MS rivets were awful. I broke several tools trying to get them out.

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MP
2169 posts
Apr 19, 2012
11:58 AM
"old MS rivets were awful. I broke several tools trying to get them out."

@ jim,
you can say that again! aside from being mushroomed,they were often off center and created a volcano effect on the exit side of the plate.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.

"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"

click user name for info-
MP
2172 posts
Apr 19, 2012
2:01 PM
STME58
the old rivets were made differently with the "shop head" on them as bruce says above.
you could break your de-riveting tool (the pliers type)trying to squeeze them out. they could be removed with a Rommel type tool and patience. i never broke a tool but jim has and i believe him.

the new ones just pop right out.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.

"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"

click user name for info-
Gnarly
219 posts
Apr 19, 2012
9:56 PM
Yeah the old ones stick in my Romel (like the Farrell) tool, makes for more work when you have to separate the rivet head from the tool--the hole isn't as big as the rivet head!
MP
2178 posts
Apr 20, 2012
11:56 AM
@Gnarly right! then you have to punch the bugger out of there. arrggh!


@STME58 EXACTLY! perfect analogy! it appears the old rivets main function was to secure the reeds to the plates for eternity.

like my friends broken Saturn down the street( now where is the fuel filter?) they are almost tool proof.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.

"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"

click user name for info-
jim
1244 posts
Apr 20, 2012
6:33 PM
Suzuki screws have arrived.

I have just two words for you: BUY THEM.

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Free Harp Learning Center
Gnarly
221 posts
Apr 20, 2012
11:06 PM
I like the Suzuki Screws--but I prefer using donor reeds with rivets attached (like the ones you sold me Jim!)
Duane Yaiser
1 post
Jul 09, 2012
7:15 PM
I'm a little late to this thread, but I'm new here. I think this is actually my first post.

First question: Do you need to contact the Suzuki dealer via email to request the screws? I went to the USA site and they were not a purchase option.

Secondly: I've seen a video of Kinya Pollard using round head machine screws, 0-80 x 1/8 Inch,from micromark.com, then cutting off the excess with a flush cut rail nipper (normally for model train tracks). Has anyone here tried that approach, are those decent screws?

Last Edited by on Jul 09, 2012 8:12 PM
GMaj7
49 posts
Jul 09, 2012
7:19 PM
Email me and I will hook you up...
Thx!
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
SuperBee
5350 posts
Mar 29, 2018
4:58 AM
This one could do to be revived. Some interesting info I missed first time around, especially Wheezer’s post about using MB reeds in Manji harps!
Frankie
125 posts
Mar 30, 2018
5:52 AM
I have all other tools I only need the following




Does any body know how I can buy only those?
Philosofy
868 posts
Mar 30, 2018
8:54 AM
The video is no longer available, but it looks like those things with the knobs can be easily made.


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