Pentatonic scales are VERY useful to a diatonic harmonica player. First of all, they are easily playable in multiple positions. Second, but just as important, they can be used to improvise and solo over a wide variety of material without hitting any bad notes so long as you know which pentatonic scale to use for which tunes.
CAVEAT: Not hitting any bad notes is NOT the same thing as playing RIGHT notes. But it's a good place to start.
@hvyj- Thnaks again, you always give such solid information
I can already play the minor penatonic scale but i always preactice it with the blue third , i should probably practice with and without it. But i know the major pentatonic is very useful and used alot (:
I also did a bit of research and even guitar teachers emphsize how important it is to know the pentatonic scales , and once you know them very well you start to add half steps if you want to make a solo more melodic for example.but first know them .
ex . I love the b.b king solos and alot of the times they sound so so sweet so that also sparked my intrest
@timeistight: BB King will sometimes use the Mixolydian scale/mode which has major 3rd as well as the 6th. For variety it works for blues if you know where to put it. In second position you have a complete Mixolydian scale without having to bend between B6 and B9 which is an effective (but underused) approach to playing the high register in second position.
Also, some musicians will add a flat 3rd to to major pentatonic scale and call it the "major blues scale" which is not a term i use. You can employ it effectively if you are careful--but unlike the regular blues scale which works against all 3 chords of the usual I-IV-V blues progression, playing the major 3rd of so-called major blues scale will not work on the IV chord. Btw, you can sometimes add the flat 5th to the major pentatonic scale for flavor and it can sound decent depending on the tune.
@wowyzowy12:"I can already play the minor pentatonic scale but i always practice it with the blue third , i should probably practice with and without it."
Don't confuse the minor pentatonic scale with the blues scale. The blues scale is almost the same as the minor pentatonic scale except you add the flat 5th and alter the intonation of the 3rd to play it as a quarter tone flat "blue third" instead of a true minor third, and you can deepen the flat 7th a little to play it as a harmonic 7th or "blues 7th" which is a 3/4 tone flat 7th. Playing the minor pentatonic scale you leave out the flat 5th and play a half step flat 3rd and a half step flat 7th.
CAVEAT : If you are playing MINOR key blues you MUST play a true minor 3rd--the "blue third" will not sound good if you are in a minor key. Playing fourth and fifth positions always give you a true minor third without having to bend. So does third position, except in the low register where the minor 3rd is D2**. Btw, when playing minor blues, you can deepen the flat third a little for expression every now and then if you want, but you can't use a blue third and sound good in a minor key.
Last Edited by on Mar 31, 2011 6:03 AM
I tend to think of blue notes as areas of inflection superimposed on a scale, chord or tonality rather than precisely pitched scale members. But, hey, there are many roads to Rome, aren't there?
Last Edited by on Mar 31, 2011 9:56 AM
I pulled up this thread, because I was wondering what to do with flatted blue notes in a pentatonic scale. This all started because I watched this video on using pentatonic scales, and there was no mention of blue notes. This is the guitarist from Jon Batiste's band on the Late Show. From what she says, it sounds like she never plays blue notes:
I don't think I can play straight pentatonic scales. The video above makes me realize I'm all about the in between notes, the blue notes, the passing notes, leading notes, micro tones, etc.
Listen to the awesome flatted leading notes in Conway Twitty's singing:
Some great advice and discussion here. I'd like to add that it's important to go beyond the theory and actually put it in to practice by learning the various scales and getting used to their sound characteristics. My initial thought was that if I know the blues scale I know the minor pentatonic too, but until I actively learned to stick to just pentatonic notes I didn't have a sonic feel for the difference that one missing note makes. Same goes for the major pentatonic or any other scale - it's about the sound not the theory. ----------
Last Edited by mr_so&so on Jul 10, 2016 9:31 AM
There are times when focusing totally on which scales are being used and trying to explain melodic line/ideas through their definition can be cumbersome and perhaps missing the point of how music works.
For instance, one can clearly hear a pentatonic scale in an artist's solo, yet that pesky b5 or dominant seventh note that sneaks in causes consternation (because these notes are not part of the pentatonic scale) in how to "label" this.
Labeling is not as important as the true essence of the music. So much that is created is outside of a simple "it's this scale or that one".
Instead, relax, listen without straining, enjoy the music and develop an awareness of understanding the notes being used as outside of a scalar limitation. Use your knowledge of scales to help point you in the direction of which notes are being used, but don't try to use scales to define them.
Real music is usually not limited to just one scale...
edit: oops, when composing this reply, Mr. So & So's post popped up before I finished. I guess I'm just rephrasing what he so eloquently said.... ---------- The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jul 10, 2016 9:33 AM
That said, a clarification on the blue major scale.
if you take the major scale and add all three blue notes - flat 3, flat 5 and flat 7, then you have the blue major scale. For instance:
C D (Eb) E F (Gb) G A (Bb) B (blue notes in parentheses)
Another approach that yields a somewhat similar result is superimposing two six-note blues scales.
For instance, C blues scale and A blues scale. Bear in mind, the A minor pentatonic is also the C major pentatonic. Add the flat 5 to the A minor pentatonic and you get the A blues scale:
A C D Eb E G
Add this to the C minor blues scale: C Eb F Gb G Bb
And you get a C scale that is more flexible:
C D Eb E F Gb G A Bb
The only note in this scale that's missing from the blue major scale is B, the major 7th and the third of the G (or V) chord. =========== Winslow
Not to disagree with Mr. Yerxa, as he is a veritable fount of musical knowledge, but I wish to venture forth that there may be more than one definition of a blues major scale (major blues scale)...
Here is a link to a page describing it just a bit differently...
http://www.jazzguitar.be/major_blues_scale.html
I wonder if it would simplify anything to point out that once you learn the chromatic scale, you can use this as a reference for figuring out which notes are being played!
(every one is in there, y'know) ---------- The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jul 10, 2016 11:11 AM
One doesn't necessarily have to apply scale knowledge to a specific instrument. It can (and should?) be a stand alone understanding of music, to be applied to the instrument of your choice.
It makes it easier for me to learn scale knowledge using a keyboard as reference and then apply it to other instruments (i.e. diatonic).
There are probably other ways to go about this, too. (I would venture to guess that it may work best with something that is fully chromatic, though). ---------- The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jul 10, 2016 11:53 AM
The " major blues scale" that Iceman refers to is the one I referred to as
A C D Eb E G
that is, the standard minor blues scale (A blues scale above) , transformed into a major-sounding scale by starting it on a different note (C major blues scale below):
C D Eb E G A
In other words, it's a mode of a blues scale.
However, the "blue major scale" is a major scale made bluesier sounding, not by starting it on a different note, but by adding in the blue notes.
I always thought the "major blues scale" was C D Eb E G A which is a major pentatonic scale with an added flat third a/k/a the "county scale." See, THE BLUES SCALES by Dan Greenblatt
Last Edited by hvyj on Jul 10, 2016 12:34 PM
A good example of the difficulty in creating/naming new scales.
After Charlie Parker hit the scene, a new scale was "created" to explain his note choices - called "The Be-Bop Scale". This one included both major and dominant seventh scale degrees.
There is another one (can't remember it's name) that is the diatonic scale with the addition of the flatted 6th.
So, it can get kinda murky to label every different sequence of notes as some type of scale and keep them from getting confusing, but I guess until a better system comes along, we will enjoy discussion threads like this one.
I think the key is that the blues scale can be played over major or minor chord progressions. Can't do that with a major scale.
So maybe it's the universal scale that can be used for everything. Just leave a few notes out, and it's major or minor. Put in a few more notes and it's chromatic.
@1847 That's a major 6th chord spelled out, a triad with an added 6th. I like the idea of adding chromatic notes to a diatonic harmonica with bending, but am not comfortable with playing in more than a few keys on one. I like chromatic harmonica for playing all in keys, but have trouble playing in sharp keys--heck, I have trouble playing in any key, I'm a guitar player!
You can think of it as a triad with an added 6 th or a G6 arpeggio. or a pentatonic scale missing one note. or a pattern that extends up two octaves, or one pattern on the bottom and another on top. you can use it to add other notes to it.
i tend to hear harmonica players trying to fit a blues scale over every song, and that does not always fit. this is a simple and effective scale that will take things up another notch.
one of the best uses for this pattern is when learning to tongue block. if one only knows how to pucker, this is a great place to start. you can get a lot of mileage out of this, all without having to bend one single note. that is the inherent beauty in this exercise.
1847: Great example of my notes hanging from a mobile concept.
If you can describe the same notes so many different ways, doesn't that lead you to step back and consider the notes as primary and squeezing them into a scale as secondary? ---------- The Iceman
to be honest i am not sure i grasp the notes hanging from the ceiling concept. i tend to think of these, as notes to pick out a melody. i would use it scale wise to employ as an embellishment in between the melody. if that makes sense.
Same notes, same relationship to each other. Their description by the observer changes depending on from which angle they are observed. ---------- The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jul 13, 2016 2:06 PM
@Iceman I get what you're saying, and I'm slowing getting there with my playing. At this point, each note in a blues scale has a personality, a little job for each note to do. Reducing it to a pentatonic would make it easier to identify the notes and their purpose. I envy the jazz guys who know all 12 notes (and a few more).
But my favorite notes are still the blue notes, and they have a special job. Flatted notes are like hitting the brakes, and I won't move on until I've bent and intonated those notes to death, haha. It's like beating a dead horse.
@1847 Love the tongue block exercise idea - I'll try it. Right now, I'm lip purse only.
OT, baby . . . The paper I posted the link to cites Warne Marsh, but misspells his name, so I did a web search, which led to his Wiki page, where I found this:
"Marsh died onstage at the Los Angeles club Donte's in 1987, in the middle of playing the tune "Out of Nowhere"."
Thanks, @Gnarly - I didn't know where that came from.
He mentions that America has exported the blues all over the world. Seems like American guitarists first learn blues, then minor scales, and finally major scales. I don't know how they teach it in other countries but it's a good starting point.
Last Edited by